tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post5067709386548663510..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Understanding Tzniut by Rav Y Henkin - review in JPostDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14381574586773808742012-10-25T23:47:40.291+02:002012-10-25T23:47:40.291+02:00so should opponents of R Kotler ztl drop the T sin...so should opponents of R Kotler ztl drop the T since he was mechalel shabbos?Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1843591189206946232012-10-25T21:31:56.250+02:002012-10-25T21:31:56.250+02:00BTW, it is also instructive that the follwoers of ...<i><br />BTW, it is also instructive that the follwoers of Satmar and even R Sonenfeld end up in Tehran conference denying the holocaust, and sitting on the same platform as nazis, islamo fascists, and generally all the representatives of Amalek.<br /></i><br /><br />Yes, Those are the fruits !rilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46820113724032386492012-10-25T17:26:30.976+02:002012-10-25T17:26:30.976+02:00I heard from Rosh Yeshiva of Ohr Sameach that the ...I heard from Rosh Yeshiva of Ohr Sameach that the Satmar rebbe was extremely abusive towards RAK. But, the story goes, at Rav Kotler's funeral , the Satmarer was weeping like a baby. <br /><br />However, this doesnt excuse such harsh abuse of the Gadol hador.<br /><br />Now it is interesting, that R Kotler was originally amongst the hardcore of Lithuanian Gedolim including R Wasserman and R Grozesnki who opposed using certifiactes provided by Zionist organisations, to save themselves and their talmidim from the Nazis.<br /><br />When R Kotler finally realised that these certificated were not actualyl "asher yatzar" paper, it was too late, and thousands had been massacred. <br /><br />It is with this background that we should look at R Kotler's overcomepnsation in Vaad hatzolah, even being mechalel shabbes to save lives, which he and his peers, who were Gedolei Hador may have saved earlier, had they listened to evidence of the not so kosher zionist witnesses. <br /><br />And r' Kotler was attacked for breaking shabbes to save lives, notably by the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe.<br /><br />So it is very difficult to maintain that being a Gadol gives you 20/20 vision, whether into the present or future, and sometimes even the past.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84394169552839830492012-10-25T17:18:45.559+02:002012-10-25T17:18:45.559+02:00Indeed.Indeed.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25971863558362686252012-10-25T16:36:16.946+02:002012-10-25T16:36:16.946+02:00The photo of the letter is printed in פאר הדורThe photo of the letter is printed in פאר הדורcohen katannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67689510105798047312012-10-25T16:34:59.310+02:002012-10-25T16:34:59.310+02:001) the satmar rebbe's חספד on rav aaron is led...1) the satmar rebbe's חספד on rav aaron is ledgendery...this teachs that aaron did not change<br />2) also famous is the letter wherethe CI refers to r kook with out even. זלcohen katannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-2445436187383663822012-10-25T16:30:27.486+02:002012-10-25T16:30:27.486+02:00Eddie: Why do you prefer KKK/MO sites?Eddie: Why do you prefer KKK/MO sites?Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-4400321027100063292012-10-25T16:26:16.558+02:002012-10-25T16:26:16.558+02:00@Eddie that particular site is from someone who is...@Eddie that particular site is from someone who is a great rav and anything BUT a NK/Satmar . . Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-62823551336008309192012-10-25T15:45:27.133+02:002012-10-25T15:45:27.133+02:00The Gedolei Yisroel all considered the Satmar Rebb...The Gedolei Yisroel all considered the Satmar Rebbe as one of the top Gedolim of his time. Rav Ahron Kotler, the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Moshe Feinstein were considered the top gedolim (by their peers) who rebuilt Jewry postwar.Postnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48084329233786818762012-10-25T15:36:26.019+02:002012-10-25T15:36:26.019+02:00@ Ben, Thanks for the link. I had seen this before...@ Ben, Thanks for the link. I had seen this before but as rule I don't like to look up NK/Satmar/neo-nazi sites.<br /><br />BTW, it is also instructive that the follwoers of Satmar and even R Sonenfeld end up in Tehran conference denying the holocaust, and sitting on the same platform as nazis, islamo fascists, and generally all the representatives of Amalek.<br /><br />That perhaps proves the fraud of the Satmar ideology, and that Amalek was not the Zionist, but himself.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-88750899021035018762012-10-25T12:36:53.853+02:002012-10-25T12:36:53.853+02:00important point!important point!Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-20570234995010785502012-10-25T10:12:11.467+02:002012-10-25T10:12:11.467+02:00"makes it abundantly clear that R. Teitelbaum..."makes it abundantly clear that R. Teitelbaum had great respect for those gedolim (Torah leaders) with whom he disagreed."<br /><br />I'd like someone to read the link provided about the SR's view on RK and then tell me that he had great respect for those gedolim with whom he disagreed. of course maybe the SR could skirt that issue by claiming that RK wasn't a gadol.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86630808027152931212012-10-25T07:00:28.493+02:002012-10-25T07:00:28.493+02:001) always interesting to see how a discussion abou...1) always interesting to see how a discussion about piskei halacha very quickly turns into "who does that guy think he is, yada, yada, yada". so instead of discussing skirt length or proper behavior of men in mixed company, we argue about Rav Henkin's kashrut.<br /><br />2) "I doubt very much if satmar would refer to rav Kook as a tzaddik." this one is waaaaayyyyyy too soft! that the SR (Tz"l) did not use Tz"l when referring to Rav Kook (Tz"l) is the least of the former's attacks on Rav Kook.<br /><br />just have a look at the SR psak on RK:<br /><br />http://rygb.blogspot.co.il/2012/01/why-i-cannot-respect-satmer-rebbe-zl.html<br /><br />any questions?Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19784052525688105242012-10-25T06:51:00.319+02:002012-10-25T06:51:00.319+02:00Abe,
You want to know if I can take someone seriou...Abe,<br />You want to know if I can take someone seriously who disrespects Rabbi JB Soloveitchik assuming that I am a follower of his. I am not. <br /><br />I went to yeshivas in which it was repeated many times in the name of Rav Aharon Kotler that "JB" was Avi Avos Hatuma. I dont believe he said that but the mindset in the yeshiva (standard litvish haredi) was certainly so. At the time, I was able to respect those Rabanim while convincing myself that they were just a bit overzealous. I know longer think so. <br /><br />I have been privileged to know great men. Real Tzadikim. None of them would ever refer to other Talmidei Hachamim in the manner in which Rav Shach, the Satmar Rebbe, or my rabbanim did. Tzidkus requires more than Talmudic genius. It requires a refined character.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35058237869723627092012-10-25T00:25:03.088+02:002012-10-25T00:25:03.088+02:00The Tzaddik issue is a very interesting debate, al...The Tzaddik issue is a very interesting debate, although not a pleasant one.<br />One must first divorce oneself from attachment to a particular Rebbe or Rav, and try to look at the matter without personal or ideological bias.<br /><br />Let us look at some cases, and I am not attacking or supporting any of the Gedolim I use as examples:<br /><br />None of R' Shach's followers would say that the Lubavitcher rebbe was a tzaddik, and vice versa. Sometimes they actually demonise each other.<br /><br />Abe mentions Rav Soloveitchik, but infamously, the Jewish Observer wrote a z.l. in their eulogy for him denying him Tzaddik status. this was the organ of the Agudah in USA. Again his opponents, and his cousins in Brisk would deny him Tzaddik status, or even worse.<br /><br />As for r' Goren, only his Tzioni follwors attribute him with Tzaddik status, whilst they may or may not say that R @ Shach and R' Elyashiv "desreved" such status (they were instrumental in disapprbation of R' Goren).<br /><br />To be "objective", all of the above are examples of Gedolim b'Torah, who were involved in controversies. Dep[ending on which side of the fence you are, you are likely to favour some and not others.<br /><br />It is therefore an interesting question as to the halachic ramifications of saying someone was /not a tzaddik.<br /><br />I doubt very much if satmar would refer to rav Kook as a tzaddik. For that matter, anyone associated with Mizrachi. I believe that Satmar considered religious zionists to be atatched to idolatry, and most likely so did the Brisker rav ztl (no pun intended!).<br /><br /><br />Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45137068251398399792012-10-25T00:05:41.327+02:002012-10-25T00:05:41.327+02:00I found that on Amazon. I quoted the portion I fou...I found that on Amazon. I quoted the portion I found relevant to this discussion.Drudgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47510523888140580932012-10-25T00:04:23.626+02:002012-10-25T00:04:23.626+02:00Drudge are you the author of this review in Amazon...Drudge are you the author of this review in Amazon or did you just cut and paste it?<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/review/R35KMWBHVAM25/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R35KMWBHVAM25<br /><br />"What is unjustified is his three page (pp. 120-122) gratuitous attack on the Satmar Rebbe, R. Yoel Teitelbaum (who is unnamed but is obviously the subject of the essay). He cites his grandfather, R. Yosef Eliyahu Henkin's private statement about R. Teitelbaum as a basis to discourage readers from according honor to the latter when his name is mentioned. But this is preposterous because all Torah sages who were contemporaries of R. Teitelbaum accorded him the utmost respect, including those whose views on Zionism he attacked. R. Henkin is simply mistaken in claiming that R. Teitelbaum believed that all the rabbis associated with Agudath Israel--and certainly the Mizrachi--"were heretics and doomed to hell for not sharing his implacable opposition to any ties whatever to the State of Israel" (p. 120). A mere glance at R. Teitelbaum's biography, including the recent article by R. Hertz Frankel in Hamodiah Magazine (Vol. XI, Issue 522, August 20, 2008) makes it abundantly clear that R. Teitelbaum had great respect for those gedolim (Torah leaders) with whom he disagreed. This unwarranted attack on R. Teitelbaum also includes a misrepresentation of R. Henkin's grandfather's views on the State of Israel (p. 121) so as to align them more closely with his own views, a fact that any reader can verify by simply examining the essay written by the elder R. Henkin which his grandson cites (note 2) to support his own view. This attack on the Satmar Rebbe did not have to be included in this book.<br /><br />Otherwise, this thoughtful book should serve as a useful corrective to some of the tendencies toward extremism as well as laxity (in modesty standards) in Orthodox circles even while preserving the reverence for halakhah that is at the heart of Jewish modesty norms. "Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-13485611231804912192012-10-25T00:02:45.436+02:002012-10-25T00:02:45.436+02:00Gil Student (a zionist) wrote that above quote. Th...Gil Student (a zionist) wrote that above quote. The site answered as follows:<br /><br />Yes, but in the same breath he [Rabbi Henkin] says that up until the founding of the state, many rabbis were against it, and he leaves the impression that he agrees, or could agree with that view. <b>It is merely on the issue of pikuach nefesh that he disagrees with the Satmar Rav.</b> This is a view held by some rabbis and certainly deserves to be one of Rabbi Student s categories: the Pikuach Nefesh view.<br />Drudgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52470533582143461762012-10-24T23:57:59.165+02:002012-10-24T23:57:59.165+02:00what do you do with the following:
http://www.jews...what do you do with the following:<br />http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/visitorcomments/comment_details.cfm?ItemNo=1247<br /><br />R. Yosef Eliyahu Henkin was adamantly opposed to the position of the Satmar Rav. He wrote:<br />I was shocked to read in Chomoteinu of Cheshvan 5719 the slanderous notion that we are required to give our lives (limsor nefesh) to frustrate and resist the efforts of the State of Israel in its struggle against those who would rise up against them. This was stated as a p'sak din based on what we learn that Israel is restricted from rebelling against the nations (Ketubot 111a)...<br /><br />Now all the rabbis who were opposed to Zionism and the establishment of a state took up that position until the time that it was officially founded. Once the state was declared, anyone who plays into the hands of the nations of the world even where there is no imminent danger, is clearly a moseir and rodeif. All the more when there is danger to destruction of life in so doing... Surely, those who recently emigrated must be very weary of the state's efforts to strip them of their Torah way of life, but to proclaim that anyone who aids the state is a rodeif, well such talk is the severest form of redifa.<br />If I'm not mistaken, this is Rav Henkin calling the Satmar Rav a rodef (pursuer)!<br /><br /><br /><br />Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73810746746186279382012-10-24T23:52:51.362+02:002012-10-24T23:52:51.362+02:00RDE: See note 2 that I mentioned above and then lo...RDE: See note 2 that I mentioned above and then lookup his granfather's actual writing.Drudgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40240430635088192222012-10-24T23:49:39.643+02:002012-10-24T23:49:39.643+02:00Where is the essay which proves that he falsified ...Where is the essay which proves that he falsified his grandfather's views?Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71135950325206167242012-10-24T23:33:56.062+02:002012-10-24T23:33:56.062+02:00RDE:
Perhaps the above reference to Henkin's...RDE: <br /><br />Perhaps the above reference to Henkin's writings about the Satmar Rebbe are from this book of Henkin you are discussion - Understanding Tzniut. See pages 120-122.<br /><br />Don't know if that was what the previous commenter was referencing. But Yehuda Henkin made up something he put in his grandfather's name. Yehuda Henkin also falsely writes that the Satmar Rebbe believed that all the rabbis associated with Agudath Israel (and the Mizrachi) "were heretics and doomed to hell for not sharing his implacable opposition to any ties whatever to the State of Israel" (p. 120). This unwarranted attack on the Satmar Rebbe also includes a misrepresentation of R. Henkin's grandfather's views on the State of Israel (p. 121) so as to align them more closely with his own views, a fact that any reader can verify by simply examining the essay written by the elder R. Henkin which his grandson cites (note 2) to support his own view. This attack on the Satmar Rebbe is a disgrace.<br />Drudgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-15749842237812604582012-10-24T23:27:01.737+02:002012-10-24T23:27:01.737+02:00James:
Many communities don't accept Rabbi J....James:<br /><br />Many communities don't accept Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik and don't think highly of him. But if you saw a so-called teshuva discussing that Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik was not a tzadik and whether it is "prohibited" to call R. J.B. Soloveitchik "zatzal" since he is not a tzadik, would you appreciate it? Would you be amused? Would you take the author of that shailos and teshuvos sefer seriously on other matters?<br />Abenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63462947320278612532012-10-24T23:15:02.852+02:002012-10-24T23:15:02.852+02:00Didn't see anything funny in the teshuva or an...Didn't see anything funny in the teshuva or any other teshuva I looked at. Where is the teshuva regarding the Satmar Rebbe?Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70738196616749573042012-10-24T23:13:09.870+02:002012-10-24T23:13:09.870+02:00He has a very long discussion of dancing in the te...<br />He has a very long discussion of dancing in the teshuva. I didn't see where he said what you claims he said.Please tell me exactly where he says it. I didn't have time to read the whole teshuva But rather he said the following. .<br /><br />http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20021&st=&pgnum=128<br /><br />על כל פנים מבואר בהרבה מקומות שרקודים אינם<br />עצם האיסור אלא נאסרו למיגדר מילתא. כן<br />משמע בספר חסידים סימן קס"ח שכתב אל תערב<br />בנים ובנות פן יחטיאו אז תשמח בתולה במחול<br />לבדה אבל בהורים וזקנים יחדיו וכו' עכ" ל, הרי<br />שאיסור רקודים הוא שמא יחטיאו ואינו עצם החטא.<br />אבל אין לאמר שכוונתו היא שאם יתערבו בנים ובנות<br />יבואו לידי רקודים ושהם עצם האיסור ונלמד האיסור<br />מקרא דירמיה פרק ל"א שהקפיד שלא ירקדו ביחד,<br />זה אינו, שהרי דרש עוד מפסוק בזכריה פרק ח'<br />ילדים וילדות משחקים ברחובותיה ילדים לבד וילדות<br />לבד עכ"ל והוא בודאי דוגמה להפרדה ולא דוגמה<br />לעצם האיסור ולכן גם הפסוק על רקודים הוא דוגמה<br />להפרדה כלומר שאין להרשות לרקוד או לרוחק * ביחד<br />פן יחטיאו בענין אחר.<br />Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.com