tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post374862932411377899..comments2024-03-29T06:06:58.796+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: The Pygmalion Effect - the importance of positive attitudes towards othersDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-88254634493920715092014-12-08T09:27:06.674+02:002014-12-08T09:27:06.674+02:00sorry for the long reply
Joe,
To start at the e...sorry for the long reply <br /><br />Joe,<br /><br />To start at the end – I have been in front of a classroom , this post<br />resonates with school teachers, principals and yeshivah high school ' ramim'<br />that I have shared with here in Israel.<br />I have shared the work of Marylin Watson , the author of' learning to trust' http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/curriculum_of_care<br /><br /> and best practices from<br />progressive schools.<br /><br />I like your post because it proves my point, that your negative view of<br />kids blinds your ability to see the possibility of a different type of<br />schooling, discipline and learning. It reminds me of a teacher who exercises tight control of his classroom and then sees them going crazy during recess , remarks – you see what these kids are like , give them an inch and they will take a mile- it does<br />not take much to understand that they may be trying to reclaim some of the<br />autonomy that has been denied to them. But the message he takes – tighter controls.<br />When it comes to academics – now I talk a lot with kids , also the best kids –<br />and why do they go to school – just to get good grades , is there anything of<br />value or that they enjoy in learning – NOTHING . So if the school system is<br />driven by extrinsic motivators – grades +discipline and there is no inherent<br />value in the learning how do you expect kids to behave. If they are addicted to reinforcements whether positive or negative , weaning them off it will be a difficult process. So for sure if we want to make changes , it is not overnight<br />but a process. So if we take away punishment or rewards , grades etc and don't create structures that support authentic student learning and community we<br />will have chaos. It is not the kids ,<br />but the system and they have learned how to play the system. As I mentioned trust and belief in their<br />abilities and as people must be supported by teaching that promotes the 4 Cs of<br />intrinsic motivation - Choice<br />(autonomy), Competence, Community ( cooperative learning), Content ( a relevant and engaging curriculum ) . Schools and kids just focus on how well they are learning and never focus on what they are learning , so there is never a connection between the child and the learning. So in the present system , how do you expect kids to behave and the poor teachers left powerless over kids who don't want to be in the classroom. <br />You surprise me – kids brought up the way I describe – without punishment<br />- end up ……… <br /><br />Have you ever thought of helping a kid do teshuvah, reflect of what they<br />have done, give them the skills and help them come up with a plan to do better. .Do you help them reflect on what type of people they want to be , do their actions express these values. Punishment just makes kids feel sorry for<br />themselves and ask what's in it for me. Is your school a caring community of learners collaborating and cooperating? Are kids helped to reflect on how their actions impact on others on just on themselves. You don't quite appreciate how to deal with problems without punishment. <br />You also don't quite understand what I mean by attributing to a kid the<br />best motives consistent with the facts - not to let him off the hook as you say , but enable the teacher to get to the root of the problem with the kid<br />and solve the problem. Are kids engaged and excited about their learning ,<br />sharing their learning with others or do they learn only for the test. Joe, I<br />feel sorry for teachers who have to teach kids who are alienated from the<br />learning and don't want to be in the class. But at least teachers should be<br />able to see kids through their eyes and have a vision how learning could be and take inspiration from the schools where this is happening.Allan Katznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10909668791053188132014-12-07T21:29:22.576+02:002014-12-07T21:29:22.576+02:00I'm beginning to feel I'm the notorious na...I'm beginning to feel I'm the notorious naysayer to your posts and comments. Big Bad Joe Returns. Believe me, I'd like to agree with you. But! I think students also need a little bit of negative reinforcement. I think studies that show that kids react to trust, belief in their intrinsic abilities, etc. may have involved students that had a modicum of punishment in their lives. Some of the generation that is completely brought up this way, starting in the cradle, seems to end up as kids that don't even bother to try accomplishing anything. They've figured out that there's no price to pay for lethargy, ignorance, and their drive to tune out the teaching, "Whatever I do, the teacher is going to attribute the 'best possible motive.' Hmm, wonder how far I can take this?" Meanwhile, punishment has become verboten, so the teacher is left powerless. One more lost child. Allan, volunteer as a teacher somewhere. Get your feet wet trying out some of your pet theories in the field. Then report back here.Joseph Orlownoreply@blogger.com