tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post3481344488300820785..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Mamzerim from Forced Get in Ma'us AleiDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39369059797062728092019-06-26T14:04:28.304+03:002019-06-26T14:04:28.304+03:00searching for help on the internet to get my ex lo...searching for help on the internet to get my ex lover whom will got divorced back, i came across this wonderful man called DR.ODOGBO of ODOGBO TEMPLE who did a nice job by helping me to get my divorced husband back within 48hours.. I never believe that such things like this can be possible but now i am a living testimony to it because ODOGBO TEMPLE actually brought my lover back, If you are having any relationship problems why not contact DR.ODOGBO TEMPLE via email on: (DRODOGBO34@GMAIL.COM ) OR WhatsApp him on +1443 281 3404 Then i promise you that after 48hours you will have reasons to celebrate like me.Reymond Morenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65933733915264975602012-05-01T06:07:19.703+03:002012-05-01T06:07:19.703+03:00avf says, "According to all of the Rishonim p...avf says, "According to all of the Rishonim pressure and shaming are NOT a forced get. That is therefore the Absolute Halacha. Anyone who has all the Rishonim in front of him and says otherwise, is a Apikoris."<br />I am confused here. Kollelnik says I am sick and you say I am an apikores. But if I am sick I cannot think straight and it is not my fault so why can I become an apikoress? <br />Also, according to you what are the Rashbo, Bais Yosef, Radvaz, Shach and Chazon Ish when they forbid coercing a GET with humiliation, surely public humiliation that is considered by Chazl to be murder? And the Chazon Ish clearly says that active humiliation of the husband makes the GET invalid. Now, you have all of the Rishonim, and you presumably have the Rashbo. Does he agree with you that humiliation of the husband is not a problem? Or is he just an apikoress and therefore removed from the Rishonim in your library? Actually, it makes sense that you removed all of the Rishonim who disagree with you about coercion, because all of them disagree with you, and therefore, you hold all of the Rishonim in your hand! Oh, you are so clever!<br /><br />ReplyDovid Eidensohnhttp://www.getamarriage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60808767690154245432012-04-30T23:56:27.770+03:002012-04-30T23:56:27.770+03:00Michael: BTW, the number you quoted of 5mil Sephar...Michael: BTW, the number you quoted of 5mil Sephardim in Israel is laughably wrong. There are only 5.8 million Jews in all of Israel according to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics (and that's without even getting into their overcounting with non-halachic Jews.) Of those 3 million are Ashkenazim and 1.8 million are Sephardim/Mizrachim according to government statistics. And a majority of Sephardim live in Israel. The overwhelmingly vast vast majority of Jews outside Israel are Ashkenazim. The only other countries with notable Sephardic populations are France with 300,000 Sephardim and the U.S. with 200,000. After that it is 50k in Argentina and 20k in Turkey. There is between 9-11.2 million worldwide Ashkenazim, with 5-6 million in the US alone.morenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46054540461892585092012-04-30T23:21:22.500+03:002012-04-30T23:21:22.500+03:00Batmelech,
It is a halachic obligation of both hu...Batmelech,<br /><br />It is a halachic obligation of both husband and wife to have relations with each other. Neither can refuse without becoming a mored or moredes. In Shulchan Aruch, Evan HaEzer Chpt. 77, it clearly states that a man who refuses to have relations with his wife is a mored. Did you consider that "spooky"?<br /><br />Why must you women continually assume, without any careful analysis, that the rabbis are discriminating against you? <br /><br />If you women would bother to carefully investigate the halacha, instead of adopting a hostile feminist attitude towards halacha, you would realize that the rabbis made great efforts to protect the rights of women, subject to the limitations of gender differences and human weaknesses.<br /><br />The hostile, feminist influenced attitudes by certain women towards Judaism and the rabbis are a major cause of our divorce crisis. Why don't you encourage women to respect Judaism and reject feminist attitudes?EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-51448961156033809322012-04-30T20:34:04.357+03:002012-04-30T20:34:04.357+03:00According to studies and research conducted by Dan...According to studies and research conducted by Daniel J. Elazar, Political Scientist and demographer at Bar Ilan University and founder of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, in 1931 Ashkenazim accounted for 92% of the Jewish population and today account for 80%.<br /><br />Don't forget 50% of the Sephardim converted to Catholicism in the Spanish Inquisition. That means many many millions of descendants that woild have been Sephardic Jews today are now Catholic. Even if Dr. Elazar is off a bit, you surely get the idea of what kind of numbers we are dealing with.morenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50051347680846180572012-04-30T17:03:54.616+03:002012-04-30T17:03:54.616+03:00Do you mind explaining how this works? I say that...Do you mind explaining how this works? I say that the blood libel is false and that makes me an anti-semite? That makes no logical sense.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22902580099305187852012-04-30T16:39:48.525+03:002012-04-30T16:39:48.525+03:00Yes the bail is invalid. Whoever was bailed out is...Yes the bail is invalid. Whoever was bailed out is mechuyav to go back to jail. <br /><br />You have no idea what the word "invalid" means. In fact you have no idea what the word "marriage" means.nonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70933826548406860072012-04-30T15:10:56.953+03:002012-04-30T15:10:56.953+03:00Important questions - some of which is discussed b...Important questions - some of which is discussed by Rav Schachter in his tape Plight of the Agunah starting at about 11 minutes. these are all discussed and I am not able to give you a quick summary.<br /><br />In sum, relationship between forced monetary transactions, forced kiddushin and forced gittinDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45111888616901156872012-04-30T14:25:57.132+03:002012-04-30T14:25:57.132+03:00Ok. The Ashkenazi to Sephardi ratio before WWII, ...Ok. The Ashkenazi to Sephardi ratio before WWII, most historians have it as 60-40 to 70-30. Hitler(mah shmo) killed 6million Jews entirely Ashkenzim. Stalin(mah shmo) and his successors, granted over quite a few more year, are believed to have killed, at minimum 7million Jews.<br /><br />Moving on. Birth rate. You obviously haven't been around many Religious Sephardim if you think they have small families. 10 children is common, 16+ isn't unheard of.<br /><br />Several years ago, when I made Aliyah, I went to Rav Neventzal to ask him about where I could buy Sephardi Soft matzah, his response "I don't know, but with 5million Sephardim in Israel they shouldn't be that hard to find." Perhaps the Rav was wrong on the Sephardi population of Israel... but I doubt it.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32624841695280064872012-04-30T14:02:49.911+03:002012-04-30T14:02:49.911+03:00Another question.
What about other kinds of contr...Another question.<br /><br />What about other kinds of contracts, when they are coerced?<br /><br />Is a marriage invalid if it was coerced?<br />How is it determined?<br /><br />Is a contract invalid if it was coerced?<br /><br />What if a father is coerced to sign a bail so that his daughter will receive a get? Is this bail also considered a coerced contract and invalid?Batmelechnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59424278690281349582012-04-30T13:47:09.844+03:002012-04-30T13:47:09.844+03:00"it is simply a legal status which results fr..."it is simply a legal status which results from not fulfilling her obligations"<br /><br />That's what I find spooky - that it seems to imply that marital relations are an obligation for the wife, when they really are just an obligation for the husband.<br /><br />The ashkenasy tradition seems to undermine this very basic principle in Ketubot 63b that you cite here. This is very, very spooky.<br /><br />By the way, if you take the list of 7 obligatory household chores for the wife, every jewish wife of today is a moredes, since none of them spins or weaves.Batmelechnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69848594469014210562012-04-30T12:18:51.869+03:002012-04-30T12:18:51.869+03:00You raise two important issues.
It is not an issu...You raise two important issues.<br /><br />It is not an issue of spooky - it is simply a legal status which results from not fulfilling her obligations. Similarly the man is also described as rebelling. The question is what is the reason for not fulling obligation - and that determines how the beis din reacts - not the mere fact of being a moredes. If the text said, "Those who refuse to fulfil their marital obligations are of two types" would it be more acceptable?<br /><br />The language of slave is that of the Rambam. He says that a wife is not like a slave who can be forced to have relations with someone she hates. This is his reading of the gemora Kesubos 63b - "One who says my husband is disgusting can not be forced to be with him." The Rambam says the gemora is understood to be saying that she can not be forced but the husband can. Rabbeinu Tam and others say that the gemora is not implying anything about whether the husband can or can not be forced. Without the authority of Chazal then we run into the problem of an invalid coereced get.<br /><br />Thus it is not a question of differences in concern for a unfortunate woman - it is what does the Torah Law prescribe. You can see this in Rav Sternbuch's anguishing over how to help agunos within the parameters of the accepted halacha.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52912049805221918872012-04-30T11:59:05.395+03:002012-04-30T11:59:05.395+03:00"You should know that there are two different..."You should know that there are two different types of moredes..."<br />"There is a moredes who despises her husband and she asserts that he is disgusting to her."<br /><br />I think it is quite spooky that a woman is called a moredes in this case.<br /><br />And I think that it is quite interesting that the major sefardi possek says that she is not a slave and cannot be forced, while ashkenasy poskim seem to call this into question.Batmelechnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10399767378483319622012-04-30T05:59:38.502+03:002012-04-30T05:59:38.502+03:00Also, the Ashlenazi birth rate (especially by the ...Also, the Ashlenazi birth rate (especially by the frum) is far higher than the Sephardic where 10+ children is fairly uncommon.morenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-53335354208903312302012-04-30T05:28:42.136+03:002012-04-30T05:28:42.136+03:00Today Ashkenazim represent over 70% of the Jewish ...<i>Today Ashkenazim represent over 70% of the Jewish populace. Pre-WWII it was much more than that.</i><br /><br />You're dreaming.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43029428527972811862012-04-30T04:57:05.843+03:002012-04-30T04:57:05.843+03:00thanks tzedokki for misleading again with a very d...<i>thanks tzedokki for misleading again with a very devious answer about shas and oslo. the torah has an issur for abstaining called lo sa'amod al dam reicho. if shas had followed the godol hador and not taken shochad there would have been no oslo. </i><br /><br />By Gadol HaDor I assume you are talking about Rav Elazar Shach who, according to his wikipedia page, had his party <b>vote in favor</b> of Oslo 1 and 2. Whose party would, under the leadership of Rav Eliashiv, go on to support the Gaza Disengagement. <br /><br />Now leaving this in context. If Rav Ovadia Yosef had, as you apparently think he should have, acted as Rav Shach's lap dog, the Oslo accords would have been strengthened by the additional votes.<br /><br />Furthermore even had Rav Ovadia Yosef <b>completely</b> opposed them(and thus Rav Shach) and voted against them, it would not have changed a thing.<br /><br />Stan, people in glass houses should not throw stones.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41522549635754458752012-04-30T04:51:27.605+03:002012-04-30T04:51:27.605+03:00Bob,
Rav Ovadia Yosef, I believe in Vol 6(though ...Bob,<br /><br />Rav Ovadia Yosef, I believe in Vol 6(though I may be mistaken I read it over Shabbat so I couldn't write down the source), says that the Kophia that the Rambam was talking about was not (chas v'shalom) actually hitting another Jew. He claims that it was figurative language for publicly deriding and demeaning the person until he gave a Get. <br /><br />That is what ORA is doing supposedly with Rav Shachter's approval. The problem is, at least according to this(ROY's) view, that such a Get would be invalid, as no one considers the approach of the Rambam to be valid.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64241441257684686042012-04-30T04:27:09.286+03:002012-04-30T04:27:09.286+03:00Stan I see your racism continues unabated very nic...Stan I see your racism continues unabated very nice. At least you are consistent.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22021847210662654072012-04-30T01:42:10.768+03:002012-04-30T01:42:10.768+03:00Stanley, you seem to be bringing Oslo into the equ...Stanley, you seem to be bringing Oslo into the equation, as if it has a connection with Gittin.<br /><br />As a matter of fact I may be in agreement with you about Oslo, and Shas' corruption/cowardice on the matter.<br /><br />But the Gedolim you appear to follow were instrumental in bringing the Oslo disaster about, by attacking religious Zionism, and mocking Gush emunim, and supporting the Peres types in the the years leading up to Oslo. <br /><br />I will give you another example - when Israeli commandoes rescued Jews in the Entebbe raid, R' Moshe Feinstein called it an open miracle, whilst R' Shach called the operation illegal and against halacha. the reason being that he considered the 3 oaths to be valid.<br /><br />Fortunately, r' Shach was honest enough to see the dangers of sticking to that position, and also unbribable, which are excellent middos, one has to agree. So he ended up saying it is assur to give any land won by miracle to rotzchim. The complete opposite of his position and that of haredi world in the years leading up to Oslo!Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-15500529887473203632012-04-30T00:43:47.180+03:002012-04-30T00:43:47.180+03:00Cohen katan beyond belief he should take some resp...Cohen katan beyond belief he should take some responsibility himself. He decided to break with rav Shach he knew better...stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3318792322787748242012-04-29T22:57:13.757+03:002012-04-29T22:57:13.757+03:00M tzdok... Bring aall the irelevant statistics you...M tzdok... Bring aall the irelevant statistics you want... Rav o yosef addmitted it was a mistake and blamed it on derieCohen katannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22197340945571244542012-04-29T22:37:10.191+03:002012-04-29T22:37:10.191+03:00Are you claiming he is agreeing with ORA's pro...Are you claiming he is agreeing with ORA's program of humiliation?<br />That is not what the Tzitz Eliezar or Rav Yosef say which he is basing himself on - they permit harchakas Rabbeinu Tam - not more.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74607518515638506362012-04-29T22:29:27.263+03:002012-04-29T22:29:27.263+03:00Today Ashkenazim represent over 70% of the Jewish ...Today Ashkenazim represent over 70% of the Jewish populace. Pre-WWII it was much more than that.morenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5914659284343413532012-04-29T22:17:37.709+03:002012-04-29T22:17:37.709+03:00Just posted the other teshuvaJust posted the other teshuvaDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52492296332535614212012-04-29T22:14:05.266+03:002012-04-29T22:14:05.266+03:00as for your reference to blood libel, you show you...as for your reference to blood libel, you show yourself to be a real anti semite. i do not need to say more, tzedokki.stannoreply@blogger.com