tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post260993606857566641..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Rav Belsky as a teacher of Torah and as a role model after a series of problematic events?Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-62636932050307818242014-12-03T06:51:14.256+02:002014-12-03T06:51:14.256+02:00Belsky is a disgrace to the Torah and a huge embar...Belsky is a disgrace to the Torah and a huge embarrassment to our community.He should be sacked by the OU and the Yeshiva where he worksPinchos Woolstonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47478257907978188552014-12-01T03:58:54.106+02:002014-12-01T03:58:54.106+02:00Vayikra Rabbah 22:1:
ריב"ל אָמַר וַעֲלֵיהֶם ...Vayikra Rabbah 22:1:<br /><br />ריב"ל אָמַר וַעֲלֵיהֶם כְּכָל הַדְּבָרִים וּכְתִיב כָּל הַמִּצְוָה <br />אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי וְגוֹ' כָּל כְּכָל דְּבָרִים הַדְּבָרִים מִצְוָה <br />הַמִּצְוָה מִקְרָא מִשְׁנָה הֲלָכוֹת תַּלְמוּד תּוֹסֶפְתּוֹת אַגָּדוֹת <br />וַאֲפִי' מַה שֶּׁתַּלְמִיד וָתִיק עָתִיד לוֹמַר לִפְנֵי רַבּוֹ כֻּלָּן <br />נֶאֶמְרוּ לְמֹשֶׁה בְּסִינַי שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (קהלת א) יֵשׁ דָּבָר שֶׁיֹּאמַר<br /> רְאֵה זֶה חָדָשׁ הוּא חֲבֵירוֹ מֵשִׁיב עָלָיו כְּבָר הָיָה לְעוֹלָמִים,kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5884753056355561252014-11-30T01:27:39.692+02:002014-11-30T01:27:39.692+02:00I never said you were dishonest - I just asked you...I never said you were dishonest - I just asked you to be a bit <1>moreChaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48592550249449142182014-11-30T00:56:19.722+02:002014-11-30T00:56:19.722+02:00ChChaim "This makes people who don't know...ChChaim "This makes people who don't know you (like Joe Orlow for example, and once upon a time, me) to view the question as a serious request for <br />information, and to respond accordingly, only to see from your responses that you already have preconceived notions which you didn't want to <br />reveal originally. " <br /><br />-------<br /><br />Firstly, Chaim you do not know me.<br /><br />Secondly, the fact that I have my own perspective does not detract from the question being a serious one. <br /><br /><br /><br />to be clear, i have heard a lot of nonsense/kefira from people who consider themselves "talmidei chachamim". One such person, in Golders green, London once said of the Torah, that without the Oral Law it is , chas v'shalom "rubbish". This is frumikorsus. it is also gidduf - blasphemy. <br /><br /><br /><br />Joe's response was refreshing, since it does give an interesting viewpoint.Eddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43385279468285535792014-11-30T00:40:36.500+02:002014-11-30T00:40:36.500+02:00Joseph, yes I read it once, and now read it again...Joseph, yes I read it once, and now read it again, thank you. I actually have not come across this perspective before. You are kind saying that they are separate, but equal, but work together as a whole.<br />I have heard several other perspectives as well. <br />many thanksEddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37421312225838044632014-11-29T23:34:29.736+02:002014-11-29T23:34:29.736+02:00"Couldn't you be a tad more honest" ..."Couldn't you be a tad more honest" - <br />what is dishonest about asking a question? <br />My question did not state that I do not have a view, it was asking what Rabbanim themselves think.<br />I essentially restated what I heard from my first Gemara teacher, after i had my barmitzvah. <br />It is also ironic that you never answer my questions, but only ask me to give my view on the matter.<br /><br /> <br />Shavua tov!Eddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59375111972245361712014-11-29T21:06:17.558+02:002014-11-29T21:06:17.558+02:00Eddie - sometimes you ask questions in a way that ...Eddie - sometimes you ask questions in a way that gives the impression that you don't already have a strong opinion on one way of the matter. This makes people who don't know you (like Joe Orlow for example, and once upon a time, me) to view the question as a serious request for information, and to respond accordingly, only to see from your responses that you already have preconceived notions which you didn't want to reveal originally. Couldn't you be a tad more honest and say, "I believe X. Does anyone agree/disagree with me?" Then we would all know where we stand.<br /><br /><br />Gut Voch<br /><br /><br />Chaim (the real one)Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19479102338192158762014-11-27T05:51:25.123+02:002014-11-27T05:51:25.123+02:00Eddie, may I ask if you reviewed what I wrote in r...Eddie, may I ask if you reviewed what I wrote in response to your original question, and if yes, did you think about it? Close one eye, look at the world, now open that eye and close the other and look. Two different pictures of the same scene. Are your eyes "disagreeing"? Yes! Now open both eyes. Is the information you are receiving from your eyes now giving you a greater picture? Yes. Think about what I've written. Torah Scholars are the Eyes of the Nation.Joseph Orlownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-13664502392436545872014-11-27T02:24:46.674+02:002014-11-27T02:24:46.674+02:00Chaim, I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge ...Chaim, I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of Sha'S like some on here might do. <br /><br />My understanding is that the Sefer Torah is central, and that Torah Law is central. This can be proven in many ways. For example, nobody does Hagbah with a volume of talmud. You cannot rest a mishnah on top of a Chumash but you can vice versa.<br />Even regarding Torah Law, we see that in cases of safek d'oraita l'humra, and safek d'rabbanan l'kulo.<br />There is also the Ramban on Lo Tosifu, where he brings that the Neviim and hachamim opposed the institution of Purim. So there are plenty of more examples i could bring to support my case.Eddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40181236977943465042014-11-26T22:16:27.116+02:002014-11-26T22:16:27.116+02:00But we need YOUR opinion!But we need YOUR opinion!Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17347235030451359852014-11-26T17:32:31.341+02:002014-11-26T17:32:31.341+02:00I am sure you also have some ideas on this, so why...I am sure you also have some ideas on this, so why don't you feel free to give them? I recall somebody was attacking rishonim for their independent views, perhaps it was one of the Chaims on here.<br />The Torah commentators have differing interpretations of the Torah. For every place I look for interpretation, i usually find some opinions that I agree with, and others that I don't, or rather, some opinions that go against the "official version". <br />Another interesting question is whether the Oral Law is an amplification of the written, or something altogether different. And if it is [different], should it be?Eddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30634651378210754872014-11-26T14:29:01.916+02:002014-11-26T14:29:01.916+02:00(I guess my previous response didn't go throug...(I guess my previous response didn't go through.)<br /><br /><em>Rav Pam was too peaceful a rav to get involved.</em><br /><br /><br /><br />Despite Rav Pam's bending over in every way not to be involved in friction, he did not get along with Rabbi B due to disagreeing with his actions.... Anyone who attended Torah V'daas during those years is well aware of it.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3976367147423980102014-11-26T08:32:18.457+02:002014-11-26T08:32:18.457+02:00in some, many of the stories, there are consequenc...in some, many of the stories, there are consequences. someone dies, someone's kids die. that these chachamim did tsheuva is good, but that doesn't mean that the actions are undone. <br /><br />the rosh yeshiva of netzarim just gave a class on doing tshuva and one of the points that he made was that tshuva doesn't undo anything. kapara isn't time travel that changes history.<br /><br /><br /><br />so my point remains. we learn their torah even though their CVs aren't spotless.Ben Waxmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69408764963149487802014-11-26T06:26:30.050+02:002014-11-26T06:26:30.050+02:00Think of stereo vision, or stereo audio. For those...Think of stereo vision, or stereo audio. For those blessed with good hearing and sight, there is a qualitative difference between seeing with one eye, hearing with one ear, and seeing with both eyes, hearing with both ears.<br /><br />Now think of your intuitive ability to process information. You look at a complicated scene and you take it all in and it makes sense. The sky, clouds, sun; the trees; the street scene; the wording on the signs; the speech of passersby.<br /><br />That is the physical world. Meshed perfectly with the physical world is a spiritual world. Just as you can discern the meaning of the physical world (that tall, brown object with green at the top you immediately recognize as a tree), so someone trained in spirituality can discern the spiritual message (that is an Esrog tree and the fruit from it is essential for my connecting with My Creator).<br /><br />A young child has to develop before it can grasp the messages of the physical world. The child eats and breathes and grows. The soul must develop to comprehend the spiritual messages of the spiritual world. The spiritual food, water, and air the soul requires has a name: Torah.<br /><br />The student studies the Written Torah in depth for five years. The student then studies the Oral Torah in depth for ten years. His mind and soul mix the two into a coherent message, as the body mixes light from two eyes, sound from two ears, into a rich, deep, meaningful whole.<br /><br />I'm sure you have no doubt in your mind that the sun is the sun. The student of the Torah has no doubt he has the right and true Torah passed down from Mount Sinai unchanged from Moshe Rabeinu, generation to generation, down to the student, who passes it on in turn to his students.<br /><br />This is not an exact answer to your question, but I think it begins to address it. That's it, typed with one finger. Now go and find a teacher and learn the rest.Joseph Orlownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23628933033121035262014-11-26T03:20:50.918+02:002014-11-26T03:20:50.918+02:00Rav Pam was too peaceful a rav to get involved.
...<em>Rav Pam was too peaceful a rav to get involved.</em><br /><br /><br />Are you suggesting that they got along well, and that Rav Pam did not have some major complaints on Rabbi B? Please verify this. Thank youHonestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59027640848952719212014-11-26T02:18:25.024+02:002014-11-26T02:18:25.024+02:00I'm sure you have some ideas about this topic ...I'm sure you have some ideas about this topic - why don't you share them, at length?Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48405291293290636832014-11-26T02:17:08.909+02:002014-11-26T02:17:08.909+02:00Don't leave us hanging, Eddie! Tell us who'...Don't leave us hanging, Eddie! Tell us who's right!Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12701039588877312002014-11-26T01:24:52.688+02:002014-11-26T01:24:52.688+02:00depends on what you define a Torah life to be. Fo...depends on what you define a Torah life to be. For many hareidim, they do not consider MOs or RZs to be within the "ball park". Then in the hareidi camp, there is an extremist element who say the same about other hareidim. Then in the extremist Eda, they say the same about some of their own Dayanim.<br />In the MO world, they say this about some groups within. And then you can look at it from another perspective. Some groups will say that certain "frum" ideas are not according to the Torah. who is right?Eddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58469959639560026912014-11-25T21:39:47.572+02:002014-11-25T21:39:47.572+02:00I have a question, which is unrelated to this post...I have a question, which is unrelated to this post, but it applies, since someone is quoting Rambam below, and he (Rambam) is quoting the TaNaCh. Since I am not a Talmid Chacham, I wish to know how Rabbanim relate to the Written Torah? Or how they learn Torah SheBal Peh in relation to the written? Is the Torah seen as central, and the Oral Law peripheral, or the other way round? Is the Tenach simply a book to refer to when learning a daf of Gemara, ie a source book for references, but the "essence" of Judaism is really the Talmud?<br /><br />Thank youEddienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21982726889460758092014-11-25T21:33:34.147+02:002014-11-25T21:33:34.147+02:00Rav Pam was too peaceful a rav to get involved.
R...Rav Pam was too peaceful a rav to get involved.<br /><br />Rav schechter has his own issues, and rav R is only a junior RY.MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56839499638980152822014-11-25T19:23:35.276+02:002014-11-25T19:23:35.276+02:00Fine.
But the oylam wants to learn from him anyway...Fine.<br />But the oylam wants to learn from him anyway.<br />And the topic they chose was Hilchos Potato Chips.Shlomohnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81221438140363089502014-11-25T16:45:51.596+02:002014-11-25T16:45:51.596+02:00Not that the following applies to rabbi b, but
A. ...Not that the following applies to rabbi b, but<br />A. A sinner Ben Adam lechavero must make whole to the victim. (Yes, i refer to $, besides public apology ( though there are opinions that an adam gadol,not necessarily refering to big in torah, does not have to make it public; not necessarily applies to this case.) (Perhaps a topic for a separate post.)<br /><br />B. Someone who commits the same sin regularly is not considered to have done tshuvah, unless we actually know he did tshuvah. MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64738995370921838472014-11-25T16:34:27.748+02:002014-11-25T16:34:27.748+02:00Are you familiar with his written support for DW? ...Are you familiar with his written support for DW? How the Five Town rabbonim publicly responded to this? I think you should add it to the list.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-7592392472892268042014-11-25T16:30:15.763+02:002014-11-25T16:30:15.763+02:00whether leading a Torah life is necessarily a more...<em>whether leading a Torah life is necessarily a more "ethical/moral" life.</em><br /><br /><br />Absolutely! It is the height of stupidity to insinuate and claim that a life devoid of Torah will lead one to be more ethical than a life of following the Torah. However, any individual who is following the Torah in certain areas, yet violating its principals in other areas - is still better off than had he not been following the Torah.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12809867046262709302014-11-25T16:17:53.916+02:002014-11-25T16:17:53.916+02:00is not shared by the vast majority of people here ...<em>is not shared by the vast majority of people here in the US</em><br /><br />Really? How do you know this?<br />Has he been invited to join the moetzes of Agudath Yisroel? Why not?<br />What did Rav Pam, his co-Rosh Yeshiva, think of his actions?<br />How about Rav Aron Schechter?<br />How about Rabbi Reisman? Etc etcHonestynoreply@blogger.com