tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post2357290553933947930..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Seminary Scandal: Defense of the Israeli Beis Din & Rav Malinowitz against Rav Feldman's accusations of incompetenceDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3952625399944000872014-08-08T01:43:20.566+03:002014-08-08T01:43:20.566+03:00I would be if I believed a word you write.I would be if I believed a word you write.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67524782845804904712014-08-08T01:41:50.182+03:002014-08-08T01:41:50.182+03:00Gottesman first tried to get the seminaries and th...Gottesman first tried to get the seminaries and their assets transferred into his name. Next he tried to have them sold to his Torah U'Mesorah colleague Bloom. At that point, for some reason, it wasn't deemed necessary to close them down. Only now that they've been sold to someone else have they suddenly been transformed into a danger that cannot be allowed to remain open. Interesting.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77010640629877878302014-08-08T01:37:08.126+03:002014-08-08T01:37:08.126+03:00" Meisels would have to prove the reputation..." Meisels would have to prove the reputation is wrong, since proving the reputation is easier."<br /><br />Meisels would not have to prove anything, since he no longer owns the seminaries. The din Torah would be with Yarmish. He could argue that R' Shafran's beis din was machshir the seminaries.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12382109648371020562014-08-06T21:31:50.055+03:002014-08-06T21:31:50.055+03:00Its very clear that the blogs (not daas Torah- oth...Its very clear that the blogs (not daas Torah- others that rhyme with "open" and begin with an L) have been severely and calculatedly misleading the oilam. There is a reason people are assuming YL is Gottesman, Personally, I don't care. But these letters deserve fair assessment like this blog is doing. Yasher koach for your honesty Rabbi E. I wish more blog sites (ehem..) would not develop information with fantasy interpretations which lead the readers to skewed interpenetrations. Don't people realize we are dealing with peoples' lives. Why exaggerate and misrepresent people in ways that will destroy them???? There is a whole other side to this saga that the IBD is revealing. Those honest will see it...sunnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-16539149169714506282014-08-06T13:50:48.400+03:002014-08-06T13:50:48.400+03:00forget the whole discussion about jurisdiction why...forget the whole discussion about jurisdiction why can't the CBD deal with the IBD like people instead of ignoring them totally and why would R zev Cohen lie to R feldman straight out and say the IBD never asked them for info as it said in the letter from R feldman to IBD when the IBD clearly said they asked for infoCant believenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84146713189902285232014-08-06T10:02:54.950+03:002014-08-06T10:02:54.950+03:00Finally something that Rabbi Eidenson, Lopin, and ...Finally something that Rabbi Eidenson, Lopin, and I can agree upon wholeheartedly!Ari Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86073652511456642332014-08-06T00:16:31.707+03:002014-08-06T00:16:31.707+03:00Kevin, what an uplifting rumor. I happen ...Kevin, what an uplifting rumor. I happen to think it has validity. Lopin selflessly fights abusers to save the souls of yidden of both sexes. Lopin is a lamed vovnik. IMHO, or deserves the nomenclature for his selfless battle. He does not even have a "gelt box" on his site as does another blogger (nothing wrong with that).Leah1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49563952742129773232014-08-05T00:36:37.705+03:002014-08-05T00:36:37.705+03:00i was always taught to follow the money an importa...i was always taught to follow the money an important question to clear up here is who is hiring (paying) the IBD to be involved in this. you could ask that q about the CBD and we know the answer is this has been a BD working on these problems for 14 years and they are in well paid rabunus positions to lead the community's that they are employed by (if they are paid at all for this side BD responsibility of there's it is a small amount) contrast this with the IBD who the girls attending the sems are not from there communities, non of the daynim have solid well paying jobs, if suddenly they are hired to sit on a one time BD well there are a lot of chasunas to make it will save a trip to America... so it only makes sense that the IBD would only get involved if hired the CBD has no reason or budget to hire them so that leaves the meisels family that it would be kadie to spend a pretty penny to hire a BD to say the semanary is kosher this would explain why the IBD writes in its letter there main concern is to make sure the semas open also the whole confusion of who started the case and then contacted whom stems from this that the IBD (after being hired by meisels family) told the CBD that they are already taking care of this matter so the CBD does not need to get involvedvafsi odenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-79805497161396217772014-08-04T23:39:37.895+03:002014-08-04T23:39:37.895+03:00How can the IBD have already paskened that the sem...How can the IBD have already paskened that the seminaries are safe while they are simultaneously demanding evidence from CBD -- thereby admitting that they DONT know the facts of the staff's culpabiliy in covering up a pattern of abuse?!!! <br /><br />The IBD is CLEARLY admitting its own ignorance while having already made a far reaching psak assuring the safety of students. The IBD so-called "Psak" --- by their own admission without any evidence from either the victims or anything CBD heard --- smells of bias/corruption to protect financial interests and jobs at the expense of the safety and well being of Jewish neshamos.vsdgbhiakmp ctfsdyvgubhakmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18451010097636537132014-08-04T22:11:02.390+03:002014-08-04T22:11:02.390+03:00I propose a new solution. Find a parent to demand...I propose a new solution. Find a parent to demand a refund of her deposit, and demand the IBD authorize other seminaries to recruit their daughter.<br /><br />A din torah of this type would be simpler, facts involved are not dependent on actual molestation, just on reputation / accusations of molestation. Meisels would have to prove the reputation is wrong, since proving the reputation is easier.<br />And unless the parent messes up like these htoanim seem to have messed up (in my opinion, on purpose), the parent is not dependent on previous din torah, and we have a straight chosen mishpat cadet.<br /><br /><br />Question is, what are the criteria for refunds?MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-51486917577577605532014-08-04T21:58:18.878+03:002014-08-04T21:58:18.878+03:00Protection holy daughters by disclosing the inform...Protection holy daughters by disclosing the information in mid summer, when depositSaree paid, holy daughters are excited about going to xx seminary, and ruining their summer and fall.<br /><br />Another problem when doing a din torah: don't schedule in summer when rabbonim / witnesses are traveling to israel, the mountains, elsewhere.<br /><br />Did high schools know about this sooner? Ask holy daughters who came back last year.MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-27931942159189407572014-08-04T21:52:05.295+03:002014-08-04T21:52:05.295+03:00Actually seems as if you are speculating. Did the ...Actually seems as if you are speculating. Did the CBD hear testimony from the staff??<br /><br />Is there something wrong with questioning the accuser?? Thats a basic when trying to ascertain whether they are saying the truth. <br />The IBD seems to have strong suspicions that there isn't much of a case here. <br /><br />There are other people who were involved with the CBD and came to the opposite conclusion. (R Burzystn). I have heard additional Rabbonim from other cities have contacted the CBD and were unconvinced by what they heard.<br /><br />Just because someone makes an allegation doesn't give them an untouchable status.<br /><br />There are serious concerns regarding the CBD in regard to this Gottesman who is basically running the show. This is alluded to in the IBD letter which calls him out for acting like a Beryon.shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58920649435861655382014-08-04T21:48:05.919+03:002014-08-04T21:48:05.919+03:00Aactually the first. CBDletter specificaly refers ...Aactually the first. CBDletter specificaly refers the matter to the IBD, actually specifying by name three dayanim.<br /><br />The question is what authority did chicago delegate. In absence of specific statement, i assume a standard shtar berrurin delegating everything.<br /><br />When signing a shtarberurin / arbitration agreement, chicagomust have clarified what standards of evidence IBD will use, and if they fimdthe facts, what kind of psaq they wi issue. So chicago either messed up (just like they see to have messed up their (non)presentation of the young ladies testimony; the question is did they less up by accident or on purpose, which is what it seems.)MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77054576397692642732014-08-04T21:37:04.056+03:002014-08-04T21:37:04.056+03:00@Yerachmiel Lopin
1) so what did the CBD mean w...@Yerachmiel Lopin <br /><br /><br />1) so what did the CBD mean when they wrote:<br /><br /><br />"Because these institutions and Mr. Meisels are located in<br />Israel and not the United States, a distinguished Israeli beis din consisting<br />of Rabbis Menachem Mendel Shafran, Chaim Malinowitz, and Tzvi Gartner has<br />assumed responsibility for this matter." ?<br /><br /><br />What type of responsibility did they give over or explicitly allowed IBD to assume? If it was just to supervise the sale of the school, why did write such a broad statement instead of narrowing it down? <br /><br /><br />If this was what the IBD was relying on, can they be blamed for thinking they had more authority?<br /><br /><br />2) Who brought whom into the picture? CBD brought in the IBD or vice versa?Just the Factsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36814864165542377232014-08-04T21:03:11.740+03:002014-08-04T21:03:11.740+03:00Do you agree that
1. Gottesman is heavily involv...Do you agree that <br /><br />1. Gottesman is heavily involved with the CBD.<br /><br />2. Gottesmans very good friend Zvi Bloom is trying to use this to get the girls from these seminaries to switch over to his seminary.<br /><br />Therefore Gottesman needs to be totally removed from having anything to do with the CBD regarding this case. <br /><br />shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48824299397682108902014-08-04T20:41:31.258+03:002014-08-04T20:41:31.258+03:00Here it comes again! A bunch of wild allegations w...Here it comes again! A bunch of wild allegations without a shred of proof. You don't answer a single point raised by the IBD. THe conduct of the CBD is completely incomprehensible. Creating a new story-line without the slightest bit of evidence or proof doesn't say much about you. Nor does it say much good about Gottesman when the IBD refers to his behavior as that of a Baryon. Many people will learn the Gemorah about the destruction the Baryonim brought about at the churban Habayis. <br /><br /><br />We have a modern day Baryon and wants to be considered a Pinchos?! This is indeed outrageous!Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71517844438275095502014-08-04T20:02:01.737+03:002014-08-04T20:02:01.737+03:00This would only be if the testimony is deemed some...This would only be if the testimony is deemed somewhat reliable. We still don't know what the testimony was and what the character of the accuser is. I think everyone would agree that if the accuser has a "history" and isn't credible than she should not be taken seriouslyshlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-55304759218275016332014-08-04T18:54:20.866+03:002014-08-04T18:54:20.866+03:00Perhaps "Y cohen" doesn't exist and ...Perhaps "Y cohen" doesn't exist and it is really R. Malinowitz who is making the comment. ;-)Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38467591310523500242014-08-04T18:42:24.666+03:002014-08-04T18:42:24.666+03:00Are you blaming the victims? Are you blaming the ...Are you blaming the victims? Are you blaming the schools based on speculation? <br /><br />As to the CBD, they first became aware of the allegations on Pesach. They then spent the next several months investigating. Then they determined that the sems weren't safe. What type of negligence are you alleging? They actually did their job of protecting our holy daughters. The very same job that others should have done years ago. If anyone is negligent, it's the teachers and staff who heard complaints but did NOTHING.Trianglenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37169743702699766882014-08-04T18:39:12.129+03:002014-08-04T18:39:12.129+03:00yes this is accurate at the present timeyes this is accurate at the present timeDaas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-44145911046191789752014-08-04T18:34:50.726+03:002014-08-04T18:34:50.726+03:00There is not a shred of written proof, presented t...There is not a shred of written proof, presented to the public and SIGNED by Chicago that CBD passed over authority to IBD. Rabbi Eidensohn, am I missing something or is my statement accurate?Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10412750781752590452014-08-04T18:30:58.885+03:002014-08-04T18:30:58.885+03:00Kevin. this is one of those paradoxical traps. If ...Kevin. this is one of those paradoxical traps. If I agree, I am no longer one. If I deny it, it is proof of modesty, but my critics will claim I am feigning modesty. ;-)Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35240994387192549022014-08-04T18:30:17.784+03:002014-08-04T18:30:17.784+03:00Basides complaining to the seminary staff, did the...Basides complaining to the seminary staff, did they complain to their high school in america, once they came back to america, about the seminary the high school recommended. High schools, and guidance counselors / israel program advisors / whatever title, are very influential in helping a young lady decide where to go.<br /><br />Or is the CBD tryin g to cover up their negligence in not following up. Something s funny going on here.MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12683351653640100512014-08-04T18:29:31.179+03:002014-08-04T18:29:31.179+03:00The claim that Gottesman is Yerachmiel Lopin is ab...The claim that Gottesman is Yerachmiel Lopin is absurd and I will simply not approve anymore of this nonsense.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5025353233890214402014-08-04T18:29:26.604+03:002014-08-04T18:29:26.604+03:00I have never had any written communication with hi...I have never had any written communication with him by email, snail mail, text, or any comparable methods of electronic communication. Nor have I ever done morse code or sign language signing. Satisfied?Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.com