tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post183259649407630887..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Weiss-Dodelson – A Response to Attack from Rosh Yeshivas on Rabbi WeissDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8324718009781019922013-02-27T22:28:25.891+02:002013-02-27T22:28:25.891+02:00Of course its bottul.Of course its bottul.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9674183531555206282013-02-27T21:06:53.964+02:002013-02-27T21:06:53.964+02:00The siruv says that he took her to court, if is n...The siruv says that he took her to court, if is not true does it mean that the siruv is botul?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11708197824303494973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63484995149776274892013-02-27T21:02:44.537+02:002013-02-27T21:02:44.537+02:00Eddie, I can be both a Stan and a Dayan at the sam...Eddie, I can be both a Stan and a Dayan at the same time. there is no contradiction in being both even simultaneously. Stanley.<br /><br />stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-72419763268090705062013-02-27T18:40:33.974+02:002013-02-27T18:40:33.974+02:00Rav Lazer Ginsburg Advises people not To Listen To...Rav Lazer Ginsburg Advises people not To Listen To Rabbi Dovid Cohen from Gvul Yavetz "Heter Arkous" for woman to Have Their Husbands arresteddonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71454309802749666892013-02-27T18:27:25.242+02:002013-02-27T18:27:25.242+02:00@ stan "i deal with these cases every day. c...@ stan "i deal with these cases every day. clearly you are an armchair ignorant blogger."<br /><br />In what capacity do you deal with these cases Stanley? Are you Stan or Dayan?Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32166066735631596872013-02-27T17:13:05.077+02:002013-02-27T17:13:05.077+02:00Actually Sam you obviously do not know what you ar...Actually Sam you obviously do not know what you are talking about. In all these cases it is the woman who refuses to compromise - who uses the child against his/ her father by trying to prevent the child from access to his father, by making the father jump through a million hoops etc.<br /><br />When the only bais din in the world that i hold of actually follows the halochoh and follows the psakim of rav elyashiv and is not in it for money and profit, yes they do. furthermore the halochoh is toveah holeches achar ha'nitvoh. If she wants a get she must go there. What are the grounds for hetter? that her husband who had a hetter simply for visitation by a single rov (not ideal i agree) goes to arko'oys to see his son and then his wife suddenly gets a hetter for everrything and anything. you obviously also don't understand how a hetter works. A hetter to go to arko'oys only allows you to claim what you are entitled to al pi halochoh. Are you so sure that weiss is following this guideline because my understanding is that she is demanding money that the husband does not have.<br /><br />neither epstein or dodelkson are agunahs in any sense of the word. they are both have the status of moredes.<br /><br />what is ruining the world is the fact that these women instead of being ostrasized are seen as the victim when they are just playing silly games to inflict pain on their husbands. <br /><br />you are incredibly naive and sucked in by the naive feminism of this dor of corruption which is equivalent to the dor hamabul despite the frum and yeshivish and haimish looks of everyone. i deal with these cases every day. clearly you are an armchair ignorant blogger.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-24039370593832272352013-02-27T15:22:55.009+02:002013-02-27T15:22:55.009+02:00You don't know if she went שלא כדין. She has a...You don't know if she went שלא כדין. She has a heter. If you disagree with the Beis din that's one thing, but she doesn't have to follow the only Beis din in the world you hold of and most Rabonim don't.<br />And Stan, don't you think the boy is suffering as I mentioned. It seems you are more then happy to have someone who is an agunah not remarry and the same goes for the husband. It's people like you who don't understand compromise that are ruining this world and causing great צער in כלל ישראל.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47238381585721632542013-02-27T14:02:12.503+02:002013-02-27T14:02:12.503+02:00The emotional garbage continues. A Bas Yisroel cry...The emotional garbage continues. A Bas Yisroel crying in agony. She is not an agunah. She is someone who went to arko'oys shelo k'din. She has despicably used her child against his father.<br />There are 2 such Botei Din, both located in Monsey NY. Rav Gestetner and Rav Abraham.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65827868773545904042013-02-27T06:21:51.391+02:002013-02-27T06:21:51.391+02:00I believe most of you are missing the main point. ...I believe most of you are missing the main point. What should be discussed is how to end this tragedy. Here you have two families who have their dirty laundry aired out in public and two people who I can only assume would like to go forward in life but can't. Is there not one Beis din in the world that two families can trust? Am I the only one that thinks that this is a tremendous chillul Hashem ? Can it be when it comes to asifas everybody is willing to try to get people there but these same people can't solve a divorce problem? And you have a Bas Yisrael crying in agony or the boy crying and there is nobody to turn to?<br />I ask one question , if you were to ask Hagoan Reb Moshe Zatzal , what would he do? Would he say to continue fighting or tell one of the sides to give in and live on?Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61687978531631851032013-02-26T22:29:12.061+02:002013-02-26T22:29:12.061+02:00I asked a question earlier about Posek HaDor
This...I asked a question earlier about Posek HaDor<br /><br />This is an interesting article by R Cardozo.<br /><br />It also is pertinent to the latest post on 12 things on this blog.<br /><br />http://cardozoacademy.org/current-thought-to-ponder-by-rabbi-lopes-cardozo/in-search-of-a-new-posek-hador-ttp-306/Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41639646210581974542013-02-26T19:26:20.763+02:002013-02-26T19:26:20.763+02:00I am waiting for James to apologize for completely...I am waiting for James to apologize for completely misrepresenting what I posted.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3667464240865652672013-02-26T18:24:28.454+02:002013-02-26T18:24:28.454+02:00you are astute. they won't. they only use halo...you are astute. they won't. they only use halochoh to further their own purposes.<br /><br />malkiel kotler, novominsker et al all know that the Agudah's archivist's family are in arko'oys. have seen a siruv but couldn't care less. <br /><br />astute observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50413287559844324902013-02-26T18:14:13.370+02:002013-02-26T18:14:13.370+02:00When was the last time rabbonim made any issue abo...When was the last time rabbonim made any issue about a mesarev in a landlord-tenant matter? or in a business partnerobservernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35756104196466356442013-02-26T18:11:20.689+02:002013-02-26T18:11:20.689+02:00Stan and james,
I don't have the previous post...Stan and james,<br />I don't have the previous posts from Rabbi Gestetner here, so I will just comment in general. Stan is right about MOUS OLEI, that it is not grounds for a coerced GET, and the coerced GET in MOUS OLEI is invalid. There are people who know the opinion of the wife having heard it from her. I heard from one of them. Rabbi Gestetner could have heard from others. A Dayan may consider witnesses as sources if he feels that such is justified by halacha. At any rate, if Rabbi Gestetner made a comment about the wife that he did not hear directly from the wife, but he heard it from reliable witnesses, it is certainly wrong to accuse him of "clearly violating Choshen Mishpot." I say this to James: I made a bad blunder once on this blog and attacked somebody, and when I realized my error, I apologized. It is human to err, but if you want to do it right, you should apologize when you make a mistake.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30999210342129145932013-02-26T17:25:54.424+02:002013-02-26T17:25:54.424+02:00Unfortunately, your two long responses do not addr...Unfortunately, your two long responses do not address my points above nor do they answer my question.<br /><br />I, too, can say that I have spoken to Gedolei Torah who do not approve of Rav Gestetner and do not accept his Gittin. Until we start naming Batei Din and Rabbanim the entire conversation is pointless.<br /><br />I have had this conversation too many times. I repeated, here, a few objections to just one small section of one bitul seruv. Until something changes or any new information is produced, I consider this conversation over. Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45797683750123648942013-02-26T07:38:43.186+02:002013-02-26T07:38:43.186+02:00One more thing:
R' Dovid can not name a recogn...One more thing:<br />R' Dovid can not name a recognized Bet Din that accepts Rav Gestetner (either in the US or Israel) and you accuse me of being bothered by normative Jewish Law? Rav Gestetner is not normative.<br /><br />Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74928516170556525222013-02-26T07:32:02.011+02:002013-02-26T07:32:02.011+02:00My answers to your questions:
1. No
2. No
3. No
...My answers to your questions:<br /><br />1. No<br />2. No<br />3. No<br /><br />Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35963747843882759792013-02-26T07:17:04.171+02:002013-02-26T07:17:04.171+02:00Michael tzadok what are you doing back here. You c...<i>Michael tzadok what are you doing back here. You commited yourself to stop bloggin on this issue.</i><br />I have. I was simply seeking information above for my own reasons.<br />I don't know why my initial reply to you was not put through so let me repeat it.<br />Thank you for your honest reply.<br /><br /><i>Michael tzadok how do you explain Dovid Cohen of g'vul ya'vetz issuing heterrim to go to arko'oys without a bais din, just himself. </i><br />I thought I made my position on this abundantly clear before, and it hasn't changed no matter who is doing it. A heter for Arko'oys must come from a validly constituted Beit Din(meaning three Rabbanim, preferrably who all have Yadin Yadin Semikha).<br /><br />This in my opinion is the understanding of the Shulhan Arukh, and further it is backed by the Takana which you were kind enough to post in the past.<br /><br /><br />Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3488060099758928202013-02-26T04:51:22.455+02:002013-02-26T04:51:22.455+02:00Since you pravda'ed my previous posting:
Once...Since you pravda'ed my previous posting:<br /><br />Once again I explained to you, MO'us olai is not grounds for forcing a Get. So since the issue was academic anyway, Rav Gestetyner did not feel the need to interview her since she was mesarev l'din anyway to the baltimore bais din and they never came down on her presumably because of her late father's wealth. so get off it.<br /><br />James you are so worried about procedure which is inapplicable here. please explain to me how rabbi herschel schachter signed a siruv against meir kin without even being mazmin him even once to a bais din. how do you explain that please. Call him up to confirm that he signed on the siruv without a single hazmonahstannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18630804587583763612013-02-26T03:17:26.139+02:002013-02-26T03:17:26.139+02:00James,
Here is part two, about other Beth Dins who...James,<br />Here is part two, about other Beth Dins who support Rabbi Gestetner. As I said previously, when I heard of Rabbi Gestetner and his work, I made it my business to check him out. First, I met with him and read his material, and he has a lot of material. He takes on everybody and writes very long pieces with hundreds of sources. But still, I realized that there was something in the air, that a lot of people are not his best friends, and I selected a group of very prominent Dayanim in Gittin, and asked them for the truth. I was told basically by everyone I spoke to that he is a big Talmid Chochom, he knows his material, he is a Yiras Shomayim, but because he is so famous as a fighter, people would not necessarily want to sit with him and battle about the halacha. By the way, I did have an argument with him, and I felt I was right, and did not change my mind, but he felt very strongly about his position. I don't know if I would want to sit on a Beth Din with someone who takes his halacha opinions so much to heart, that he must battle for the truth over every point. I don't even know if an effective Beth Din can contain strong people who go to war over this and that. So, there are three sides to Rabbi Gestetner as I see it. He is surely qualified to write Gittin and his halacha decisions are most likely backed by solid sources, and he is a yiras shomayim. He could make a lot of money in his field, but he refuses it. That is very special. So, the first phase is his positive qualities that everyone I spoke to agrees are very special and unusual. Phase two of Rabbi Gestener would apply to people who insist on their right to interpret halacha in a way that normative Judaism would not. Those people probably hate Rabbi Gestetner. Then you have people who respect his Beth Din, but would not necessarily want to sit together with him and spend a few hours at war. I might be in that category. But if necessary, bli neder, I would surely do it, and get a good night's sleep before the Yeshivas Beth Din.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://toroahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69042055359974627292013-02-26T03:07:11.709+02:002013-02-26T03:07:11.709+02:00James,
I appreciate your lengthy reply to my remar...James,<br />I appreciate your lengthy reply to my remarks. I certainly did not refer to you when I spoke about people on the Internet doing certain things. But I meant it is a problem, one that I and others have run into. But I did not accuse you cholila, I merely presented my thoughts that to attack someone is a serious matter and I call upon you to verify your remarks. My remarks are thus a challenge to you to present an answer to my points, that is, to show that what you claim, that Rabbi Gestetner have "clearly violated" the laws of Choshen Mishpot. I mentioned that your wording clearly stated that he had done this more than once. So, I am waiting for the second proof of his violating Choshen Mishpot. I also said that it is possible that in the heat of the debate, as in all intellectual arguments or even discussions, someone may be moved to somewhat exaggerate. And I said that if you said a plural when you really had a singular, I don't accuse you of being a liar for that, if you admit it. But if you won't admit that you made an error, I restate my point, that you made an accusation about a Talmid Chochom who issues Gittin, and you cannot substantiate it. This does not make you a liar. It makes you a claimant without a proof. Again, I don't claim that you deliberately lied. I did say that there are people I know who do deliberately lie. But I did not have you in mind as one of them. But if you do not produce the second proof that you accuse Rabbi Gestetner of doing, and you don't apologize, I feel you are doing the wrong thing. But I don't call you any names for it.<br />This is very long, so I will have to continue in a new windows. But anyway, I feel this takes care of part of your remarks. I will now have to explain about the support of Rabbi Gestetner from others.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://toroahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1602717861847227772013-02-26T02:28:44.558+02:002013-02-26T02:28:44.558+02:00Michael tzadok how do you explain Dovid Cohen of g...Michael tzadok how do you explain Dovid Cohen of g'vul ya'vetz issuing heterrim to go to arko'oys without a bais din, just himself. Do you justify this since he is an open feminist?stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35102388832799304212013-02-26T01:13:39.662+02:002013-02-26T01:13:39.662+02:00I discussed this issue a few months ago and am jus...<br />I discussed this issue a few months ago and am just repeating what I said back then. I do wish you would have commented back then when I was "in the sugya".<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/09/bitul-seruv-of-aharon-friedman.html<br /><br />Rav Gestetner issued a Bitul Seruv. I have multiple problems with the psak. B-F are all wrong and misguided but I did not address those points because he is deciding questions of law. He is saying there that the BD issuing a seruv got the law wrong. I think he is wrong as a matter of law but that is a debate others can (and have) taken up. I addressed the violation of Shulchan Aruch with respect to point A.<br /><br />The Shulchan Aruch 17 discusses judicial procedure. Let us look at one seif: 17:5. "Assur ledayan lishmoa divrie baal din haechad shelo lifnei baal din chaveiro". In English, we call this ex parte communication. The claims he makes about Tamar are outrageous. <br /><br />Here is what he writes:<br /><br />"And this is certainly true in our case where she acknowledges that there is no meisus as she herself, in her own handwriting, hasexpressed her true heartfelt emotions before leaving him: that she loves him, admires him as a goodand loyal husband, and lists in detail a long variety of his virtues." <br /><br />How can he make that determination based on an unsubstantiated diary entry? Did he ask her why she wrote that? Perhaps her therapist thought it would be a good exercise. How can anyone claim to know her true heartfelt emotions without asking her or talking to her? There is not one reputable court of law that would decide a fact (she is not disgusted by him) on the basis of a diary entry without speaking to the woman herself. <br /><br />"But nonetheless she decided to leave him because of frivolous and immaterial reasons even though her actions are harmful to their daughter.Such behavior is found only amongst the lowliest of the world’s peoples."<br /><br />Frivolous and immaterial reasons? What an outrage! Maybe she has some very good reasons for leaving him that she doesnt wish to share in public! It sounds like he only heard Aharon's side of the story. <br /><br />"The lowliest of the world's people"? If anyone should apologize, it is Rav Gestetner to Tamar! Shame on him. <br /><br />Rav Gestetner thinks he knows what is in her heart. He decides a question of fact without hearing her side. That IS A GROSS violation of halacha. I will not apologize.<br /><br />Once again, you claimed that there are multiple respectable batei din that accept Rav Gestetner. Please name them. <br /><br />On a personal note, I take offense to the intimation that I "specialize in this kind of lie...[and] love coming to the Internet to do [my] dirty work." Are we going to start accusing each other of "lying"? Are these attacks helpful? I can only conclude from vitriol you spill that you have spent too much time with Rav Gestetner.<br />Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39892048018163706772013-02-25T23:34:18.523+02:002013-02-25T23:34:18.523+02:00By the way, I want from James either proof that Ra...By the way, I want from James either proof that Rabbi Gestetner "clearly violates Choshen Mishpot," or an apology for Rabbi Gestetner. You just can't get up and say lies about a person because you don't like him. or his beliefs. If James made a mistake, I will accept that as well. But making such a bold statement about someone that everyone believes it, and then not answering a challenge to it, is very wrong. There are those who get away with making bold statements because nobody would challenge something that is obviously easy to check out, so it must be true. But there are people who specialize in this kind of a lie, and they love coming to the Internet to do their dirty work. They assume that on the Internet nobody is so suspicious as to suspect them of a bald lie. Again, I call upon James to clarify if his attack on Rabbi Gestetner still stands, then he must furnish the source in Choshen Mishpot that Rabbi Gestetner violated. If James recognizes that he may have moved too fast in the heat of debate, let him apologize for that and I will accept it.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60277948374998140312013-02-25T23:27:47.763+02:002013-02-25T23:27:47.763+02:00I see things are heating up over here. I just want...I see things are heating up over here. I just want to reiterate what I said before, that the battle about the Siruv is not about the wife, it is about the first Beth Din and the Second Beth Din, who are clashing about facts, namely, they seem to disagree if there was a response on the part of Rabbi Weiss to the demand for a Din Torah from the First Beth Din. The Siruv of the First Beth Din seemed to be based on their claiming that Rabbi Weiss did not perform properly and is therefore worthy of a Siruv as one who ins contempt of a demand for a Beth Din session to resolve a fight. Rabbi Gestetner disagrees and says that Rabbi Weiss did behave properly. The Weiss family and Rabbi Shain of Lakewood claim that there are 22 documents to prove the position of Rabbi Weiss, that he did respond properly. This has nothing to do with the wife, it is an issue of whether or not Rabbi Weiss responded properly to the First Beth Din, and agreed to work out arrangements for a Din Torah.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.com