"Can't you see how our non-frum brethren have been duped? Are you so blind as to blame them instead of the non-frum movements that perpetuated this spiritual crime against our loved ones."
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Let me try to summarize your position so that we can at least know that we are in agreement as to what you are saying. Once we stop talking past each other perhaps I can explain the view of "ghetto" Jews and why they reject your approach - even though they understand your position.
You are making a number of assertions
1)Intermarriage is caused by non-Orthodox religious beliefs
2) Intermarried couples are not rebelling against G-d
On the other hand the traditional approach to intermarriage has been to banish the intermarried couple. You assert that the kiruv organization have realized the error of this approach while the "ghetto" Jews still "don't get it"
In other words there is no justification for the traditional approach and that the "ghetto" Jews are insanely interfering with the spiritual life saving effort which must be done to save the Jewish people.
Put another way, you are asserting that the intermarried Jews are "tinok sh'nishba (captured innocents) and thus bear no responsibility for their dangerous spiritual condition. We have the obligation to save them - even if it means violating traditional halachic norms and possibly lowering the barriers that keep Orthodox Jews from intermarrying - since the stigma will be removed. Non-Jewish spouses must be converted even if it means encouraging the acceptance of many non-Jewish children into our school systems and communities as well as accepting many non-Jewish spouses who will convert primarily for convenience and not out of conviction?
You want to deal with the alien element in the same way as the Catholic Church did by mass conversions that were so successful - they had to have an Inquisition to determine the "sincerity" of the fifth column which they produced.
Anonymous 11:39 Writes:
90% of intermarried Jews do so out of IGNORANCE."The Jew who marries outside of his faith has made a deliberate decision to cut HIM/HERSELF off from the Jewish people FOREVER. Such a Jew has very intentionally spit in the face of G-d.
What is the point of chasing after such a person?"
The proof of your ignorance lies in the body of your post.
They were raised in assimilated families, in assimilated neighborhoods, with the Reform & Conservative instilling within them that Hashem, Torah & Mitzvot belong to a bygone age when people were backwards and unenlightened.
Unfortunately and extremely sad, you, my friend, are what the non-halachic movements refer to when speaking of the "backwards & unenlightened", as you go through life with blinders on, wishing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Jews who have married out did not do so with the idea of spitting in the face of Hashem, nor to rebel against their Jewishness.
They were taught in public school that being Jewish is the same as being Irish, French, Romanian or Mexican, and that it's racist to in-marry.
Please wake up before you and those who are as clueless chase even more Yidden in tot the arms of alternative religious movements.
February 4, 2008 4:52 PM
As someone who had the misfortune of being raised Ultra-Reform, I can state with absolute authority that "are you people for real?"'s statement of the ignorance of the Reform is absolutely false.
ALL Jews, including those who affiliate as Reform or Conservative, know that intermarriage is forbidden.
The Reform Rabbi of our community absolutely refused to perform or recognize an intermarriage, and the same went for all of the others in our State at the time (New Jersey mid 1980s).
When my sister decided to marry a gentile, she understood that Judaism forbade it, knew her parents might reject her as well as a lot of her friends, and made the conscious choice that her selfish desires and American constitutional value system was of greater importance to her than the preservation of her Jewish identity.
Part of being raised Reform meant that 7 of my 8 cousins intermarried and so did 1 of my 2 sisters. They all knew exactly what they were doing and understood the choice they were making.
They just don't think it matters in the scheme of things and that if there is a G-d, they will surely be forgiven of their sins.
Your case is that anyone who would intermarry does so out of ignorance and that therefore it is incumbent upon the religious hierarchy to facilitate a virtual "pardon" by enabling the kashering of the intermarriage via conversion.
My case is that if the Jew and gentile who are involved in the intermarriage can be made to understand the gravity of what they have done, that the gentile will divorce the Jew because she loves him and cares more about his immortal soul than being "happy" during these few fleeting years we have in the physical world, or that the Jew will initiate the divorce for the same reason.
A [gentile] friend of mine said it very well: when he heard two Jews talking about accepting an intermarriage because "Bob"s 'happiness' was what was really important, he answered by saying that a shot of Heroin would also make him happy. It doesn't mean it's good for him.
You seem to believe that the Creator of the Universe can be "forced" or duped into accepting a Torah level violation because of some Rabbinic sleight of hand. If that's the case, why stop at intermarriage? We can advance to Idolatry, Incest, and Homosexuality until we finally find an "Orthodox" Rabbi who lets a man marry his own brother with Chuppah and Kiddishin and you'll tell us that the Rabbi is preventing them both from sinning.
February 4, 2008 10:04 PM