tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post7624432772115829606..comments2024-03-19T10:06:55.071+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Correcting the shame of the distribution of the disgraceful letter of 9 rabbis against Rav "S" at the Lakewood asifa of Lev L'AchimDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18465506350118482182013-07-12T21:03:40.089+03:002013-07-12T21:03:40.089+03:00Eddie wrote: "R Waldenberg forbade smoking, a...Eddie wrote: "R Waldenberg forbade smoking, at variance with the haredi position, esp that of RMF, does that make him non haredi?"<br /><br />It's not "at variance with the haredi position" as if there was one monolithic position. In "Sh'eilas Rav" R' Chaim Kanievsky, *the* haredi godol, is asked if smoking is permitted on second-day yomtov for those accustomed to smoking. His answer? גם בחול אסורMonseyitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76318671828359720412013-07-11T01:14:22.647+03:002013-07-11T01:14:22.647+03:00Moshe Bursztyn The Mesariv Ledin Now has some Type...Moshe Bursztyn The Mesariv Ledin Now has some Type of Teaching or Substituting Job in Orchos Chaim after Being Fired from Bais Hatorah in Lakewood and Passaic Yeshiva Ktana,His Uncle Reb Yussel Bursztyn Refuses To allow Him To Teach or Substitute in any of His MosdosAshernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70656585620728557212013-07-09T23:22:44.011+03:002013-07-09T23:22:44.011+03:00I came across some nice pictures, the first one in...I came across some nice pictures, the first one includes a young Tzitz Eliezer in the Rabbanut BD<br /><br />http://www.rabanut.gov.il/VF/ib_items/37/%D7%96-3.jpg<br /><br />The second pic is of R' Shapira meeting with RMF z'tl<br /><br />http://www.rabanut.gov.il/VF/ib_items/51/%D7%99%D7%91-2.jpg<br />Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39364491162253299142013-07-07T23:12:57.809+03:002013-07-07T23:12:57.809+03:00The case with R Yussel Bursztyns Nephew and Niece ...The case with R Yussel Bursztyns Nephew and Niece Definitly is True it is File In Lakewood and the ocean county Court systems and Bais Din Bais Yosef issued Hazmonos which Many People hava Copies of. Unfortunetly for Rav Yosef Tzvi Bursztyn He learned The Hard Way You do NOT Support a Moser,Because it will end up backfiring on you as it did in the case of R Yussel Bursztyn when he was Arrested in Lakewood Like a Common Criminal For Assulting a Police Officer,Midda Kneged MiddaResponse to will hillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-75481367983920424222013-07-07T16:06:17.173+03:002013-07-07T16:06:17.173+03:00I didn't say he wasn't fully accepted by t...I didn't say he wasn't fully accepted by the Chareidi world. He was.<br /><br />I said his psakim aren't all accepted as normative. And he isn't considered to be on the same level as other contemporary gedolim. Though he certainly is considered to be a godol.J Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10743084842095300352013-07-05T09:17:48.780+03:002013-07-05T09:17:48.780+03:00Rav Eidensohn -
Now that it's July 5th... Do ...Rav Eidensohn - <br />Now that it's July 5th... Do you know if the issue was raised at the Lev L'Achim asifa on July 3rd?Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02425451150293411043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86442152247989332522013-07-05T06:49:56.898+03:002013-07-05T06:49:56.898+03:00I dont know if there is one iota of truth in what ...I dont know if there is one iota of truth in what you say. But it doesnt even matter. Even if your comment HAD been true, what someone's nephew and niece do or did has nothing to with their uncle. The uncle doesnt and cant control his nephews.Will Hillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82161143658533523982013-07-04T23:55:55.769+03:002013-07-04T23:55:55.769+03:00I Find it Very interesting That Rabbi Tzvi Yosef B...I Find it Very interesting That Rabbi Tzvi Yosef Bursztyn would sign Such a Letter Considering The Fact That Rabbi Bursztyns Nephew and Niece Moshe and Kayla Bursztyn who Live in Lakewood had their Tennent arrested and Jailed in Lakewood Township Jail and Ocean County Prison in Toms River and filed Criminal charges against Him Because They Claimed he owed them Two Month Rent, and he allegedaly Insulted=("Harrased")Them.They did this without Going To Bais Din as a Matter of Fact when They Were Subsequently Summoned To Bais Din Bais Yosef and Mechon Lehorah, They Ignored Bais Dins Hazmonos and Ikkuls and Even Threatened Bais Din That They will sue Bais Din For Millions of Dollars if They Put out a Siruv against Them For Being a Mesariv LedinDouble Standard In Lakewoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21918802045341052882013-07-04T21:40:01.278+03:002013-07-04T21:40:01.278+03:00James,
Your comment is extremely biased and igno...James, <br /><br />Your comment is extremely biased and ignorant and takes only your limited point of view into account.tzoorbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77471703109791291542013-07-04T18:51:30.238+03:002013-07-04T18:51:30.238+03:00I think the Rosh Kollel Choshen Mishpat ought to r...I think the Rosh Kollel Choshen Mishpat ought to resign. He obviously doesnt know anything about Choshen Mishpat.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-497893442256196652013-07-03T19:58:14.418+03:002013-07-03T19:58:14.418+03:00At the time, his private apology was appreciated b...At the time, his private apology was appreciated by the family. Having endured such cruel viciousness, even a little straw was better than nothing.<br /><br />But, if your in contact with him please don't let him get away with "think about it".<br /><br />HE DISGRACED À GREAT TALMID CHACHOM AND HIS FAMILY IN PUBLIC AND APOLOGIZED IN PRIVATE?!?<br /><br />Tell him he has nothing to worry about, his cousin that got him to sign (AH) is not campaigning anymore.concernedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00725433166043905160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76625504068118491122013-07-03T18:09:52.099+03:002013-07-03T18:09:52.099+03:00It would make a large difference if one of the Rab...It would make a large difference if one of the Rabbonim would come out with a letter of apology instead of just a layman like R' Epstein, as sincere as he is, putting out one.Bubby in Lakewoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12833280214530236722013-07-03T17:11:37.262+03:002013-07-03T17:11:37.262+03:00Perhaps this article clarifies his position
http:/...Perhaps this article clarifies his position<br />http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/Rav_Eliezer_Waldenberg_%281915-2006%29-_An_Appreciation_1.html<br /><br />You are right , the subjects he wrote about do not prove affiliation, but perhaps his style and overall view do not fit in with the conservative style of Haredi world.<br />JJ claims he was not fully accepted by haredi world, which says something. <br />In any case, his independence, as R Jachter focuses on, was a very non-haredi trait.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35853226612033935312013-07-03T15:23:16.721+03:002013-07-03T15:23:16.721+03:00Eddie where do you see that Modern Orthodox are cl...Eddie where do you see that Modern Orthodox are claiming the Tzitz Eliezar? You were the one who raised this issue solely on the basis of the issues he wrote about and poskened - it is clear that measure is not considered a valid basis to determine affliation by anyone.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21736584179609734312013-07-03T13:53:23.469+03:002013-07-03T13:53:23.469+03:00If it is pathetic, then you have my Haredi teacher...If it is pathetic, then you have my Haredi teachers to blame, since it was precisely their basketball approach to gedolim that made me ask this question. In fact, I saw R' Shach had accused Mizrachi of not producing any Gedolim. <br />The fact that both side wish to claim a Gadol as belonging to their own camp only shows how great he was.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77408305622850905772013-07-03T12:09:52.459+03:002013-07-03T12:09:52.459+03:00Shortly after Kolko's plea of guilty, on 14 Ma...Shortly after Kolko's plea of guilty, on 14 May 2013 I contacted a signatory of that letter. I asked him if he was going to apologise. The first thing he told me was that he was not aware that Kolko had pleaded guilty. Secondly, he told me that he had already apologised to the family of the victim and that he regretted signing the letter. I asked him if he would publicly apologise and he told me that he would think about it.Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19512751370785034902013-07-03T10:48:26.258+03:002013-07-03T10:48:26.258+03:00what kevin said.what kevin said.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50602806392445529302013-07-03T10:33:24.259+03:002013-07-03T10:33:24.259+03:00Rav Eidensohn has joined others in condemning an e...Rav Eidensohn has joined others in condemning an egregious abuse of rabbinic power and authority by leading rabbonim in one of America's most prestigious enclaves of Torah study. These rabbonim publicly, but mistakenly, condemned an outstanding member of their community who, a reasonable investigation would have shown, had not violated halakhah, but had acted to protect the children of the community. As these rabbonim are surely aware of their error, their failure to apologize can only be understood as a refusal. <br /><br />Rav Eidensohn points out that the person wrongly condemned was not a moser by ANY interpretation of halakhah. Accordingly, this matter has nothing to do with legitimate differences of rabbinic opinion, but rather the respect for truth and kavod reakhah expected of any Jew. I daresay that leaders of any Gentile institution would be harshly criticized for such arbitrary and abusive conduct. The condemnation of someone who acted lawfully for the public good is reminiscent of the "justice" of Sedom as recounted in the Gemarah.<br /><br />So I ask respectfully, why are commenters here quibbling about what "camp" Rav Waldenburg, ztz"l, was perceived to have belonged to, and how he was ranked among poskim? Isn't that irrelevant? Rav Eidensohn used the psychologist's expression, "the elephant in the room" -- a big, ugly fact that people would like to pretend doesn't exist. Isn't the "elephant in the room" a massive failure of Torah, at least Torah as taught and practiced in a "leading" Orthodox community? What sort of Torah education, Torah living and Torah community produces leaders such as this, and a community that accepts them? <br /><br />Of course, you say the Torah hasn't failed the Jews, Jews have failed the Torah. Fine -- but what is to be done about it, lest it be perceived as a failure of Torah itself?<br /><br />To respond to "Shma Koleinu" (rather, "Shma Koleihem")-- indeed, in terms of knowledge I am a donkey compared to these rabbonim. But is it not better to be Bilam's donkey than Bilam, better to have yiras shamayim and see where one shouldn't go and not go there? <br /><br />The Torah teaches, "lo tihyeh acharei rabbim l'ra`ot," "do not follow after the multitude to do evil." In biblical Hebrew, "rabbim" means "multitude." But since the Torah was given once for all time, I think it is justifiable today to understand "rabbim" in the later sense of "great men," i.e., "rabbis." Note that the mitzvah is in the singular, addressed to each individual Jew. While Jews are elsewhere enjoined to follow rabbinic authority, here each individual Jew is expected to understand when "the multitude" -- or, I dare say, "the rabbis" -- are going the wrong way, and resist going there.<br /><br />As the metaphor goes, let's not rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Let's fix the hole. Kevin in Chicagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04134839107044549138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-26842957929888185022013-07-03T07:09:59.501+03:002013-07-03T07:09:59.501+03:00i suppose that suggesting to these gentlemen that ...i suppose that suggesting to these gentlemen that they act with as much grace, honor, and humility as harav lamn wouldn't help.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78141077814767101512013-07-03T07:06:02.294+03:002013-07-03T07:06:02.294+03:00this need to label people and stick them into this...this need to label people and stick them into this or that camp as if you are talking about players in a baseball league is a bit pathetic. <br /><br />how about this: people, especially, great people, are a lot more complicated than we think. someone can have multiple facets to his personality, his thinking, his work. <br /><br />chareidi doesn't simply mean "machmir", the two are not synonymous. similarly, someone can wear black, eat eida food, vote degel and still think that the medina is an incredible gift from God, and that serving in Zahal is a great mitzvah (even if he thinks that avreichim should get a deferral). there is no contradiction here.<br /><br />the previous admor of sadigora was called the admor of the yishuvim. does anyone think for one moment that he was mizrachi?Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-24221845489205443402013-07-03T03:03:50.318+03:002013-07-03T03:03:50.318+03:00Dear R' Eidonsohn,
I think the most mentchlic...Dear R' Eidonsohn,<br /><br />I think the most mentchlich thing to do is to contact those Rabbonim, tell them the facts as you see them and ask them for their response. Posting things on the internet, although good in a certain sense doesn't solve the issue or is not a kiyum of tochacha. We are all upset that the Rabbonim do not have seemed to investigate the matter properly before embarrassing the father. However, we should not be guilty of the same aveirah. In order to be mochiach, I think a respectable talmid chochom should contact each of the Rabbonim (or for example someone may ask Rav Epstein as part of his teshuva) to contact all of the other Rabbonim and either be mochiach them or ask them for an explanation. But it seems enough talking around the people and around the issue. The Rabbonim need to be confronted and either rebuked (if they have made an error) or provide an explanation if they believe they have not. Avrahamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3319602031672838392013-07-03T01:58:37.103+03:002013-07-03T01:58:37.103+03:00Tzorba,
Under what scenario could they have writ...Tzorba, <br /><br />Under what scenario could they have written their letter if they had inquired with Rabbi S? He would have gladly shared the psak. Even if they disagreed with R. Sternbuch's psak they would have had to acknowledge it with a qualifying phrase such as not getting a VALID psak. No. They were either willfully ignorant or dishonest. In the process they have done incalculable harm to their credibility as honest competent rabbonim.<br /><br />This was not rabbonus; this was politics. <br /><br /> Yerachmiel Lopinhttp://frumfollies.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76735009760574693262013-07-03T01:06:38.607+03:002013-07-03T01:06:38.607+03:00Was the machlokes with R Goren the cause of his mo...Was the machlokes with R Goren the cause of his move to the Haredi world, or just a pretext? R Goren served simply as "patsy", i.e. a good excuse , and this was engineered by the Haredim as a sort of mikveh of fire for R Eliashiv to be accepted a full Haredi. <br />Had RYSE really opposed R Goren's nullification of the alleged giur of Mr Borokovsky, he would have also destroyed Dayan Sherman 9his protoge in the raabnut) 35 years later. Actually he supported the same mechanism that he so famously opposed 35 years prior!Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74693163515555412412013-07-03T01:05:39.427+03:002013-07-03T01:05:39.427+03:001. As was reported here many times, two of the lea...1. As was reported here many times, two of the leading Rabbonim here in America (Rabbis Kamenetsky and Forschiemer) said they should report to the authorities. Rav Shternbuch's letter is only notable because he was the only one with the courage to put it in writing.<br /><br />2. Some of the signatories were specifically told that there was a psak. The battle cry was it has to be in writing, as the embarrassing letter states. <br /><br />Anyone of them could have asked the father, a contemporary of theirs (although far greater than them), and he would have told them. He was asked by the "matirim" not to be "mefasem", unless there was a need.<br /><br />3. A common misconception is to apply to these cases the laws of "Erka'os" (ערכאות) . The halachick issue in abuse cases is a potential Mesirah (מסירה) , different problem, different guidelines, and different Siman (סימן) in Shulchon Orech!<br /><br />Erka'os: we are not allowed to honor non-Jewish judges by bringing to them a fight between two Jews, for arbitration and settlement. Regardless of the outcome and ruling we have still given them honor, which is why even if you know they rule like Jewish Judges it's still asur. The only way one can go to the courts (for example, if the plaintiff is not willing to meet you in Bais din), is to get a written hetter from a Bais din.<br /><br />Mesirah: we are not allowed to inform the non-jewish authorities of another Jews crimes. This is when there is no dispute between two parties, and the reporting party has nothing to gain or loose. If one sees another Jew doing something wrong, he's not allowed to report him, to holdup the rule of law. Here the problem is the outcome. The halacha in his case is afraid the non-jews will treat him unfairly, with excessive punishment. To this halacha there is a different caveat- if the perpetrator is perceived to be a hezech larabim (threat to public wellbeing), one can remove him from society by reporting him to the authorities. THERE IS NO SHULCHAN ORACH THAT SAYS YOU NEED BEIS DIN OR EVEN A HETER AT ALL, FOR THIS.<br /><br />This is not to say it's not a very good idea to discuss all issues with halachik ramifications, with a competent Rov. If someone has a question about his kesher in his teffilin, he's not mandated to discuss it with anyone. If he's confident that he knows hilchos teffilin he can decide himself, same with Mesirah.<br /><br />4. Another misconception is that the problem with the "Heter system" is that Rabbonim are reluctant to get the police involved. That is simply not the case. When a parent goes to his Rov, generally he makes the necessary inquiries and can get a feeling if there seems to be a problem. At that point almost all Rabbonim would immediately give a "Heter" to have law enforcement take over. The problem is that the accused then runs to his Rov, and that's when the fun starts. The accuseds' Rov seems to always "know for a fact that nothing happened", and feeds a frenzied attack on the heter giving rabbi. <br /><br />That is the reason none of the Rabbonim in America were willing to publicize in writing their heter.<br /><br />This is also part of the reason the mob in this case, kept on demanding written heteirim. They knew that nobody would have the courage to publicize their name, for fear of the attacks they would have to endure. And if someone drums up the courage, the mob would kill him for it until he's forced to retract.<br /><br /><br /> <br />concernedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00725433166043905160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40936546228775182902013-07-03T00:52:05.521+03:002013-07-03T00:52:05.521+03:00Rabbi Eidensohn,
This gang of nine cannot attemp...Rabbi Eidensohn,<br /> <br />This gang of nine cannot attempt tshuvah without admitting the chet harishon, that they issued judgement and publicly slandered a talmid chochom without even checking their facts. They have to admit that essential point. Saying "Oops we goofed!" would be a gross understatement of their failure. If other's misled them and are still misleading others they need to speak to that. Unfortunately the fish rots from the head and someone with integrity will have to find a way to say it, or nothing will change.<br /><br />In a strange way, I at least give Satmar credit. When they decided to slander the victim testifying against Weberman, R. Aaron Teitelbaum, biatzmo, called her a whore in front of several thousand people. But the other Aaron is more devious. Yerachmiel Lopinhttp://frumfollies.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com