tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post75420044293781527..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Accepting a pedophile rabbi as a congregant?Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8970628686589047942012-11-02T02:14:18.105+02:002012-11-02T02:14:18.105+02:00really ksil, who else but a pervert could say that...really ksil, who else but a pervert could say that there is no difference between a married woman having consensual, out-of-marriage relations and a child being sexually abused. (And yes, 12, 13, 14, 15 year-old are children) The wife may be a criminal against her husband and Hashem, but the abuser is a criminal to society at large. In order to inflict someone else the woman would have to divorce and remarry a potential victim, whereas with the pedophile, every child is a potential victim. You really cannot differentiate that one is an all-around dangerous individual and the other cruel to one specific person? The woman also is primarily hurting herself by doing the aveirah. It may devastate her husband, but the main problem is between her and Hashem. The pedophile is irrevocably damaging an innocent child. I cannot believe I seriously have to write this, nothing could be more obvious. Dinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13311432985497286401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40383358647961674482012-11-01T11:13:21.435+02:002012-11-01T11:13:21.435+02:00
See my lastest posting
http://daattorah.blogspot...<br />See my lastest posting<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/11/who-is-spending-night-with-your-daughter.htmlDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73698101525653553662012-11-01T08:53:58.696+02:002012-11-01T08:53:58.696+02:00Pat, you don't seem to have a correct definiti...Pat, you don't seem to have a correct definition of the word risk. (or danger). no namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38293761301413536462012-11-01T03:32:56.489+02:002012-11-01T03:32:56.489+02:00Kaye's relationship was consensual too. And it...Kaye's relationship was consensual too. And it was not with a halachic adult. They are both equally guilty. The risk/danger is equal.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39687187526733541172012-11-01T00:27:17.895+02:002012-11-01T00:27:17.895+02:00You are 100% correct that the issue is the risk an...You are 100% correct that the issue is the risk and danger posed to others - not what punishment is appropriate or how immoral he is.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73397465089675092422012-10-31T22:57:34.654+02:002012-10-31T22:57:34.654+02:00I am getting confused here. If the question is ab...I am getting confused here. If the question is about the risk and danger posed to others, there is a major difference between a pedophile and someone who has a consensual relationship with an eishes ish. The former is a predator, the latter is not. The second guy (similar to the first fellow) is an immoral jerk. I would also be offended by his presence, though I would not experience fear or threat to anyone's safety. Just what is the issue here?Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19498161904422618812012-10-31T18:41:07.641+02:002012-10-31T18:41:07.641+02:00Whatever acts you suggest be taken by a shul or Je...Whatever acts you suggest be taken by a shul or Jewish community against David Kaye, should certainly be taken against a man who had (consensual) sex with someone else's wife (eishes ish).<br /><br />At least as much.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-79998873956907709542012-10-31T18:38:47.260+02:002012-10-31T18:38:47.260+02:00Worse in terms of what? We are talking about causi...Worse in terms of what? We are talking about causing emotional trauma to children.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-7597441178096809482012-10-31T18:10:45.899+02:002012-10-31T18:10:45.899+02:00Under Jewish Law, someone who cavorts with an eish...Under Jewish Law, someone who cavorts with an eishes ish (married woman) is far far worse. Him and her.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49068677340659417652012-10-31T14:45:02.689+02:002012-10-31T14:45:02.689+02:00lol. pat is not a pervert, and i dont understand ...lol. pat is not a pervert, and i dont understand where you are getting that from any of his comments!<br /><br />he is right to challenge the ba'al ha'blog here about what is considered an aveira, or a rodef, etc. mr. baal hablog cannot just make up stuff, which is exactly what he is doing.ksilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39922638085778286082012-10-31T09:22:09.600+02:002012-10-31T09:22:09.600+02:00Blogger doesn't show IP addressBlogger doesn't show IP addressDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52170876415823368042012-10-31T04:11:18.474+02:002012-10-31T04:11:18.474+02:00RDE, I enjoy reading your blog very much. I am not...RDE, I enjoy reading your blog very much. I am not usually one to comment, but I have to concur with Eli, I hope you give law enforcement authorities the IP address of the poster named "Pat". At first I thought his comments merely provocative, trying to show his prowess in Torah knowledge. Now however, I fear he is a pervert and his identity should be revealed to the correct authorities.Dinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13311432985497286401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52527250126996607902012-10-31T03:43:25.199+02:002012-10-31T03:43:25.199+02:00Someone who cavorts with women is not the same kin...Someone who cavorts with women is not the same kind of danger to society that someone with pedofillic urges willing to act out, is. Its really not the same. You don't comprehend that sexual abuse of a child destroys the person? A wife who slept around, while evil, is not psychologically harmed; she is not even a victim. An abused child is a victim. How do you not understand that?no namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-26812870850991076952012-10-31T00:28:39.334+02:002012-10-31T00:28:39.334+02:00no name: I used that term colloquially not clinica...no name: I used that term colloquially not clinically.<br /><br />If Kaye had a one-night stand with someone's wife, he then too should be shunned. He should in such a case be treated the same way he should be treated for the incident he was charged with.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56114810780242468742012-10-30T22:49:25.532+02:002012-10-30T22:49:25.532+02:00Shalom rabbi. It seems to me that the scientific ...Shalom rabbi. It seems to me that the scientific parameters you quoted also make a distinction with regards to age for defining "pedophilia." Rather than a set in stone number, they use the term "prepubescent" and state that age of onset of puberty can vary. But they even give "under 13" as a general guideline. So its not even far off from how our sources define children and adults. <br /><br />But everyone involved in this discussion should be honest with themselves. First, can people admit that even if it does not fit the term "pedofilia" (suppose the boy was 14) isn't Kaye still a danger? <br /><br />Secondly, Kaye did not inquire whether this 13 year old had begun puberty to decide whether he was going to meet him for sexual acts. Isn't it obvious he has the urges of a pedofile and is therefore a danger to society, even if you feel he was entrapped by undercover agents? Why would it make a difference if the kid was 15, 14, 13, or 12? <br /><br />And to pat, where did you see a professional diagnosis of kaye as a "sex addict" which you so readily define him as?no namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5773593493592132272012-10-30T22:42:50.802+02:002012-10-30T22:42:50.802+02:00Also, in this case the guy was tricked into thinki...<i><br />Also, in this case the guy was tricked into thinking he was going to have sex with a consenting 13 year old. <br /></i><br /><br />I hope RDE has your IP address and hope that the law enforcement authorities know about you.Elinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-994911451793540912012-10-30T22:05:42.153+02:002012-10-30T22:05:42.153+02:00I understand the issue quite well.
The teshuva yo...I understand the issue quite well.<br /><br />The teshuva you brought from Nishmas Avraham citing Rav Eliashev's position is about molestation not about consensual sex. It is against everything to molest a child OR to molest an adult.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with considering the testimony of mental health professionals. But that is not the issue at hand.<br /><br />Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-62257874264856549132012-10-30T22:00:15.241+02:002012-10-30T22:00:15.241+02:00Nope. It means you have no understanding of the is...Nope. It means you have no understanding of the issue. I assume you would claim the same about Rav Eliashiv zt"l since he said that child abuse is pikuach nefesh - something which is not in any standard Jewish source and means he was relying on the testimony of mental health professionals.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67549080501437631652012-10-30T21:33:17.172+02:002012-10-30T21:33:17.172+02:00It simply means your reverence for secular science...It simply means your reverence for secular sciences is greater than your reverence for the supremacy of Jewish law.<br /><br />Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-51253491242174719292012-10-30T21:31:51.391+02:002012-10-30T21:31:51.391+02:00Obviously there is no comparable Torah law concern...Obviously there is no comparable Torah law concerning pedophilia - which simply means you simply don't understand the material I posted.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21411547287825027312012-10-30T21:21:50.704+02:002012-10-30T21:21:50.704+02:00I asked about Jewish Law. The ICD-10's opinion...I asked about <b>Jewish Law</b>. The ICD-10's opinion of what AGE constitutes pedophilia does not necessarily make that the Torah's definition of what AGE a person goes from being a CHILD to being an ADULT.<br /><br />There has to be a definitive age cutoff. The APA might provide the secular legal definition. But not the age cutoff for the Torah.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87542235801261735782012-10-30T21:19:30.987+02:002012-10-30T21:19:30.987+02:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
The ICD-1...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia<br /><br />The ICD-10 defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."[6] Under this system's criteria, a person 16 years of age or older meets the definition if they have a persistent or predominant sexual preference for prepubescent children at least five years younger than them.[6]<br /><br />The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR) outlines specific criteria for use in the diagnosis of this disorder. These include the presence of sexually arousing fantasies, behaviors or urges that involve some kind of sexual activity with a prepubescent child (age 13 or younger, though onset of puberty may vary) for six months or more, and that the subject has acted on these urges or suffers from distress as a result of having these feelings. The criteria also indicate that the subject should be 16 or older and that the child or children they fantasize about are at least five years younger than them, though ongoing sexual relationships between a 12–13 year old and a late adolescent are advised to be excluded. A diagnosis is further specified by the sex of the children the person is attracted to, if the impulses or acts are limited to incest, and if the attraction is "exclusive" or "nonexclusive".[1]Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83190535333634637492012-10-30T18:27:29.599+02:002012-10-30T18:27:29.599+02:00Of course I would have a problem with him babysitt...Of course I would have a problem with him babysitting. He is a proven sex addict. I would have a problem with him being near adults too. He tries to seduce adults to have sex with him. No one would want him near their wife. Or mother. Or sister.'<br /><br />But none of that make him a "pedophile". He is a sex addict. And an immoral person. Who wants to have sex with people other than his wife.Patnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32522557025677789232012-10-30T18:24:15.106+02:002012-10-30T18:24:15.106+02:00Pat I give up trying to explaining it to you.
I...Pat I give up trying to explaining it to you. <br /><br /><br />I assume you would have no problem having him babysit your kids or being your kids teacher or being their camp counselor since he never did anything inappropriate - that we know of - with kids.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45764992171241717382012-10-30T18:07:30.072+02:002012-10-30T18:07:30.072+02:00"We are dealing with a person who has a lust ...<i>"We are dealing with a person who has a lust for children"</i><br /><br />Says who? We are dealing with a person who has a lust for <b>adults</b>, not children. He NEVER did anything untoward with any child anywhere, ever.Patnoreply@blogger.com