tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post7526814473642316849..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Rabbi Tropper and the halachic processDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56786207796502072382009-10-09T15:20:45.800+02:002009-10-09T15:20:45.800+02:00You already mentioned this befor. Can you give me ...You already mentioned this befor. Can you give me the names of the Rabbis that you claim are working currently for the EJf that are doing what you claim they are doing?<br /><br />As far as I'm aware, EJF does not have a kiruv office at Calgary. The Bais Din that they send to, has converted ONE family who was ALREADY MARRIED. If you have the names of rabbis who are currently doing what you say they are doing and they are currently working under EJf I will be able to pass over to the people at the headquarters so that would be able to remedy this situation. But, as of now, this story simply lacks any credibility as to their connection to the EJf, as the EJf's policy is to reject cases where the prospect is not married and is seeking conversion in order that they get married.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8606185480411206852009-10-09T05:10:35.371+02:002009-10-09T05:10:35.371+02:00to Roni
Just sit and watch as Calgary Alberta beco...to Roni<br />Just sit and watch as Calgary Alberta become the EJF clearing house for intermarried's. <br />I've live here for years and together with the Calgary Kollel there is out and out campaign to reach out to 20 something boiys dating their shiksah (omps can i say that anymore) girlfrinds <br />we are watching and reporting <br />EJF WATCHohr613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14731707493349517092009-10-09T03:54:34.496+02:002009-10-09T03:54:34.496+02:00Finally got some help to tell him that what Rav Tr...Finally got some help to tell him that what Rav Tropper says is exactly what HaRAv Chayim Oyzer Grodzenski (and others say)!<br /><br />M writes: "You only quoted that first part He obviously does not agree with you that it better to boel nochrit".<br /><br />Can you enlighten me to quote the part where he does not agree with me in case where they will not keep torah and mitzvot and be boel niddah?roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67935502553972247852009-10-08T22:33:43.481+02:002009-10-08T22:33:43.481+02:00Btw, Mt, had you have a chance to find out who wro...<i>Btw, Mt, had you have a chance to find out who wrote the following lines?<br />וגם אין לצדד להתיר איסורא זוטא כדי שלא לעבור ע"ה איסור חמור, וכמו שאמרו בעירובין ל"ב, וכמש"כ המהרשד"ם לצדד בכה"ג וכמש"כ ג"כ בשו"ת מוהר"ח צאנז, וה"נ נאמר דנעבור לכתחלה איד"ר =איסור דרבנן= כדי שלא יעבור על איסור דבא על הנכרית דע"י נשואין הוי בפרהסיא ואסור מה"ת,<br /><br />דהא בנ"ד דיש לחוש בזה בודאי שלא תשמור פתחי נדה וטבילה ויהי' בועל נדה בכרת ...., ובנכרית אין איסור נדה<br /><br /></i><br /><br />I am not what you are trying to prove from שו"ת אחיעזר חלק ג סימן כו<br /><br />You only quoted that first part He obviously does not agree with you that it better to boel nochrit.the Monsey Tzadiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38652798867339000572009-10-08T17:21:47.993+02:002009-10-08T17:21:47.993+02:00Dt,
Please post my public apology to Mekubal!
Mo...Dt,<br /><br />Please post my public apology to Mekubal!<br /><br />Moadim lessimcha!roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70779988666764574072009-10-08T16:24:07.032+02:002009-10-08T16:24:07.032+02:00Btw, Mt, had you have a chance to find out who wro...Btw, Mt, had you have a chance to find out who wrote the following lines?<br />וגם אין לצדד להתיר איסורא זוטא כדי שלא לעבור ע"ה איסור חמור, וכמו שאמרו בעירובין ל"ב, וכמש"כ המהרשד"ם לצדד בכה"ג וכמש"כ ג"כ בשו"ת מוהר"ח צאנז, וה"נ נאמר דנעבור לכתחלה איד"ר =איסור דרבנן= כדי שלא יעבור על איסור דבא על הנכרית דע"י נשואין הוי בפרהסיא ואסור מה"ת,<br /><br />דהא בנ"ד דיש לחוש בזה בודאי שלא תשמור פתחי נדה וטבילה ויהי' בועל נדה בכרת ...., ובנכרית אין איסור נדהroninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-44789882383117399842009-10-08T16:22:48.990+02:002009-10-08T16:22:48.990+02:00Mekubal,
I want to take this opportunity to ask ...Mekubal,<br /><br />I want to take this opportunity to ask you for a public forgiveness for many words that I wrote that were disrespectful to you and insulting and rude.<br /><br />Have a great endof chag and may Hashem help us all to give us the greatest hoshana that we all need: the YEshua of the geula shleyma,<br /><br />RoniRoninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12874627579771655662009-10-08T16:19:52.051+02:002009-10-08T16:19:52.051+02:00". I also approached R' Eisenstein about ...". I also approached R' Eisenstein about those issues. Both Rabbanim answered me that it was not a problem... to trust the Beit Din to know at the end what the situation is".<br /><br />MEkubal, <br />Moadim Lessimchah!<br /><br />I don't think that they are contradictory. Lechatchila it is not done. A Beit Din that sees fit to do it and is a mumcheh and yireh shomayim may do it bediavad and then you may trust the this Dayan's judgment at the end of the process. <br /><br />Chag Sameach<br /><br />Ronironinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3436867111040865102009-10-08T14:04:26.110+02:002009-10-08T14:04:26.110+02:00Essentially my point here is that unless you have ...<i>Essentially my point here is that unless you have a news source, or a video or audio file, it didn't happen simply on account of it is just your word against another's. </i><br /><br />I actually say that he told it in front of 100's of rabbis, it was at the New Jersey Conference in 2006 where rav Hershel Schachter, gave a lesson about conversion of a minor (which clould help Tropper understand that rashi) , I hope someone who who was in that conference will confirm it. However it might be uncomfortable for some people who were paid by the EJF to go to that conference (airplane, family, accommodation) to say so<br /><br /><i>Seriously though, I know that you are hurt, and have been hurt by him. </i><br /><br />I was not personally hurt by him but I know people who did, like the family of Gideon Busch, like Rabbi Nathan Slifkin, like his first wife, like the single mother whose Tropper told her husband to leave her and her children and to go to a yeshiva in Israel, like the woman and her child Tropper revoke her conversion because of wearing pants.<br /><br />If we can publicize Tropper misdeeds and convince people who want Orthodox conversion to go to a normal beis din, convince people who want to be BT to go to a normal yeshiva then we can save life, we can save families.<br /><br />Also we would like to keep the concept of eilu and eilu, Tropper is one of the greatest enemy of Modern Orthodoxy and if they afraid to stand up to Tropper other will do.<br /><br />BTW, the UOJ has another expose on Tropperthe Monsey Tzadiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71662510518611086602009-10-08T08:56:47.282+02:002009-10-08T08:56:47.282+02:00the Monsey Tzadik said...
Because in general ...<i> the Monsey Tzadik said...<br /><br /> Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married.<br /><br /> Tropper,<br /><br /> You actually said that shtus in front of hundres of rabbis that it is better for the couples to get married first and then ask for conversion because then it is not leshem ishus but you ask for it not be publicized.<br /><br /> I cannot believe that nobody took you to task with that like your other shtus you said that Jews who have sex with shiksas are on higher madrega than Jewish guys who are married to Jewish girls but do not go to the mikva.<br /><br /> Your sick reasoning was that having sex with goya the punishment is malkus and having sex with nidah is cares.<br /><br /> That nobody challenged you for that is one way to show us yeridas hadoros.<br /><br /> And in any case, Did you or any of your employee reached out to Ivnaka or Jared trying to convince them to go with the EJF.<br /><br /> Did you ever converted couple who was not yet married ?</i><br /><br />No I have not been brain washed, I just think that this should be kept to what is fair and what are facts.<br /><br />Essentially my point here is that unless you have a news source, or a video or audio file, <i><b>it didn't happen</b></i> simply on account of it is just your word against another's.<br /><br />MT quite honestly I think you help Tropper by spilling your bile against him, as much as Roni hurts him with his angry comments. Its a weird Ying Yang thing... <br /><br />Seriously though, I know that you are hurt, and have been hurt by him. However, at some point you just gotta move on and get past it. If you can document your accusations than great, if not... while I cannot speak for everyone, I would prefer that you kept them to yourself, or start a blog entitled "I hate Tropper", and leave those of us who want Torah discussion, based on Torah issues in peace.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59915274625966147372009-10-08T08:49:42.958+02:002009-10-08T08:49:42.958+02:00Also Rav OVadayah in his teshuvot differentiates b...<i>Also Rav OVadayah in his teshuvot differentiates between before marriage and after marrigage suggesting that after marriage, in general, there may be a genuine interest of kabbalat mitzvot and the rationale tha tthey are doing it for love is not so strong as before their their marriage. This is recorded in his teshuvot!</i><br />I know what is recorded in his teshuvot, I have read most of them. However, I also know what was the case, when I asked him straight out about two different situations where it was clear that the conversion process was starting l'shem ishut. I also approached R' Eisenstein about those issues. Both Rabbanim answered me that it was not a problem... to trust the Beit Din to know at the end what the situation is.<br /><br /><i>Why do you read things that were not written and put words in my mouth?</i> See this is a rhetorical question in which you assume I am doing something, though I could reverse this on you. The truth of the matter is that from my reading, and re-reading of your words, the meaning remained unclear. So I asked clarification questions, that was all.<br /><br />Roni, and I mean this with all sincerity, you would do much better to not always assume that you are being attacked. In case you haven't noticed, in this instance I am actually trying to justify R' Tropper's alleged actions. You would do well to take help when it comes and not alienate people by assuming the worst.<br /><br />To sum up, your points though. You say that some pretty big poskim have a problem with it. In addition Rabbi Tropper doesn't do it. So you take umbrage at someone saying that he does/did. I find that a fair, if somewhat unnecessary point.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56916908755505519432009-10-08T06:39:56.606+02:002009-10-08T06:39:56.606+02:00"However, aside from the various suppositions..."However, aside from the various suppositions, I don't see a problem with saying that R' Tropper offered his help to someone who needed it, even if her last name was Trump".<br /><br />In addition to the way the motzi shem rah made his libel, it is a problem because in general Rav Tropper does not deal with gerut for thos who were not married yet. (This is even if we are sure that in this case there is full shmirat mitzvot and both parties keep shabbat, kashrut and mikvah al pi Shulchan Aruch).roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49963110642523180972009-10-08T06:37:22.306+02:002009-10-08T06:37:22.306+02:00ROni wrote: "2) especially, when the person s...ROni wrote: "2) especially, when the person seeking or being sought is wealthy with lots of money it has the impression (true most times) that it was done with the corruptible power of money".<br /><br /><br />MEkubal" Are you suggesting that we don't convert rich people?<br />Does R' Tropper refuse rich people?<br />Whatever happened to the precept that the poor and the wealthy are supposed to be equal in our eyes".<br /><br />Roni: Why do you read things that were not written and put words in my mouth? I wrote "Especially" which means that this point is in sequence to previous point: That in addition to the general assumption, that when done for marriage they are not genuinely seeking to keep mitzvot; when on top of that the fellow has money it gives greater rise to the suspicion that it is not genuine (due to their previous not keeping torah and mitzvot) and they are buying their conversion with money (as we are very familar with so many stories).<br /><br />But of course, when one is really seeking to covnert (like for instance, a sole male or female) then we do not differentiate between race or gender or the amount in the bank account.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17195662314267862192009-10-08T06:33:42.876+02:002009-10-08T06:33:42.876+02:00You say it lacks Kabbalat mitzvot, however I know ...You say it lacks Kabbalat mitzvot, however I know that R' Eliashiv and R' Eisenstein don't hold that way. Not for a person to start the process l'shem ishut. It is only a problem if they finish the process l'shem ishut. mekubal wrote: "I am not in a position to discuss this directly with R' Eliashiv, however I have discussed it with R' Eisenstein, and also with R' Yosef. Both told me that it is up to the B"D, at the end of the process to find and decide if, at the end of the process it is being done for proper reasons".<br /><br />ROni: Exactly! and Rav MOshe and Rav HErtzog claimed that in america and in similar places there is an "umdenah dmuchach" that it lacks kabbalat mitzvot. If a dayan is convinced otherwise, so be it that in this particular case it is different. <br /><br />Also Rav OVadayah in his teshuvot differentiates between before marriage and after marrigage suggesting that after marriage, in general, there may be a genuine interest of kabbalat mitzvot and the rationale tha tthey are doing it for love is not so strong as before their their marriage. This is recorded in his teshuvot!roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69087592892391482262009-10-08T06:30:19.796+02:002009-10-08T06:30:19.796+02:00After that you said,
"Why is it a problem to ...After that you said,<br />"Why is it a problem to say that R' Tropper sought or even encouraged Ivanka to undergo a valid conversion through his system?"<br /><br />1) Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married. In general it lacks kabbalat hamitzvot.<br /><br />mekubal:"I will agree with you that it would have been wrong for R' Tropper to go up to Ivanka and say, "Hey you wanna marry this Jewish guy, let me help you convert."<br /><br />However, after it became clear that she was seeking conversion, where is there a problem? When it is her seeking to convert is there an issue?"<br /><br />Roni: In general, there is an issur derbanan to be megayer leshem ishut, ie. even if the person is seeking to convert, but we know in advance that she is seeking it only because of ishut we are prohibited to be megayer even if *she* is seeking.<br /><br />A special dispensation is given by the posskim "lefi reot eyeney hadayan" when he is convinced that this for the benefit of them to live that way and the dayan is convinced that they will keep torah and mitzvot.<br /><br />The problem recorded in the past hundred and so years is, as Rav Moshe and many other write extensively:<br /><br />That in our society where most convert leshem ishut, and there is no peer pressure for the convert to keep torah and mitzvot (especially when the jewish partner does not keep torah and mitzvot) and it is clear that they are only doing it "Externally" there is an "umdenah demuchach" that she is not really seeking to keep the mitzvot in which case there is an inherent problem with the essential gerut (where it may not be chal bediavad). <br /><br />This bothered Rav Moshe to the point that he raises this over and over in his teshvuot. He wwrites in one of his responsa that he questioned how the gerut takes effect even bediavad!<br /><br />So, while there might be situations, where the Dayan is convinced that the person will actually keep mitzvot and he has permission to do so "kefi reot eyeney hadayan"' it is not lechatchila.And certainly one is not correct in giving mussar by saying that they should "encourage it" when it is actually an issur lechatchila! if the dayan feels that this leads to problems!<br /><br />So, Rav Tropper and his organization set it up in a way that they do not deal with such issues for in the majority of cases they are not genuine. <br /><br />"Furthermore once it became clear that she was confused about what was and was not a true conversion, it seems to me that it is incumbent upon the Torah community to attempt to help her make good choices".<br /><br />Who says is is "incumbent"? You have source? It is not wise to to dictate to others on issues like this where there is an issur lechatchila. You might say that one is "allowed" to do so; but to claim that it is "incumbent" is wrong!<br />to be continued...roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67492361238551841392009-10-08T06:16:05.175+02:002009-10-08T06:16:05.175+02:00I don't believe you that R tropper said what y...I don't believe you that R tropper said what you said that he actually said.<br /><br />But you who wrote this? <br />וגם אין לצדד להתיר איסורא זוטא כדי שלא לעבור ע"ה איסור חמור, וכמו שאמרו בעירובין ל"ב, וכמש"כ המהרשד"ם לצדד בכה"ג וכמש"כ ג"כ בשו"ת מוהר"ח צאנז, וה"נ נאמר דנעבור לכתחלה איד"ר =איסור דרבנן= כדי שלא יעבור על איסור דבא על הנכרית דע"י נשואין הוי בפרהסיא ואסור מה"ת, <br /><br />דהא בנ"ד דיש לחוש בזה בודאי שלא תשמור פתחי נדה וטבילה ויהי' בועל נדה בכרת ...., ובנכרית אין איסור נדה <br /><br /><br />If you need help for the true meaning I'm here!roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81536303030693814342009-10-08T06:08:40.110+02:002009-10-08T06:08:40.110+02:00"And in any case, Did you or any of your empl..."And in any case, Did you or any of your employee reached out to Ivnaka or Jared trying to convince them to go with the EJF".<br /><br />Didyou or any of your friends beat your neighbor today?roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74196612469446288032009-10-08T06:07:32.842+02:002009-10-08T06:07:32.842+02:00Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to...Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married.<br /><br />MR said: "Tropper,<br /><br />You actually said that shtus in front of hundres of rabbis that it is better for the couples to get married first and then ask for conversion because then it is not leshem ishus but you ask for it not be publicized'.<br /><br /><br />Roni: the chochom has two problems: 1) he contradicts himself, otoh he complains that Tropper "proselytizes" otoh you imply that it is proper to seek them to convert in order to get married.<br /><br />2)amongst The posskim that deal with the issur to convert leshem ishut, many of them (Rav OVadayah brings some of them) hold that once they are married it is not called "leshem ishut"; prior to their marriage it is called "leshem ishut" and carries the issur derabanan.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78429574825985413722009-10-08T03:57:11.831+02:002009-10-08T03:57:11.831+02:00DT wrote "and I am moving in Mekubal's di...DT wrote "and I am moving in Mekubal's direction regarding banning your comments".<br /><br />Roni said:<br /><br />Which will demonstrate to all that you are unable to deal with issues of hotzooat diboh, sheker and milchemet sheker against one person without any basis and have a few guys coming up with lies and shmootz to defame a man.<br />----------------<br />Roni you have the same difficulty comprehending dialogue as R' Tropper.<br /><br />Just like R' Tropper you believe if you keep saying the same thing over and over again that that is called communication. <br /><br />You both insist that you are right and it is the other guy's problem that he doesn't agree.<br /><br />Sorry but it doesn't work that way in the real world.<br /><br />If you want us to accept your view you need to prove it and present it in a reasonable manner - and not scream it over and over and over again in capital letters using mispelled words.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11251406720348310312009-10-08T01:19:01.449+02:002009-10-08T01:19:01.449+02:00Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to...<i>Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married. </i><br /><br />Tropper,<br /><br />You actually said that shtus in front of hundres of rabbis that it is better for the couples to get married first and then ask for conversion because then it is not leshem ishus but you ask for it not be publicized.<br /><br />I cannot believe that nobody took you to task with that like your other shtus you said that Jews who have sex with shiksas are on higher madrega than Jewish guys who are married to Jewish girls but do not go to the mikva.<br /><br />Your sick reasoning was that having sex with goya the punishment is malkus and having sex with nidah is cares.<br /><br />That nobody challenged you for that is one way to show us yeridas hadoros.<br /><br />And in any case, Did you or any of your employee reached out to Ivnaka or Jared trying to convince them to go with the EJF.<br /><br />Did you ever converted couple who was not yet married ?the Monsey Tzadiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43792959778980508012009-10-08T00:48:49.591+02:002009-10-08T00:48:49.591+02:00To start off Roni, I will freely admit to you that...To start off Roni, I will freely admit to you that the way the story was originally portrayed, was a Motze Shem Ra.<br /><br />After that you said, <br /><i>"Why is it a problem to say that R' Tropper sought or even encouraged Ivanka to undergo a valid conversion through his system?"<br /><br />1) Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married. In general it lacks kabbalat hamitzvot.<br /></i><br />I will agree with you that it would have been wrong for R' Tropper to go up to Ivanka and say, "Hey you wanna marry this Jewish guy, let me help you convert."<br /><br />However, after it became clear that she was seeking conversion, where is there a problem? When it is her seeking to convert is there an issue? When it becomes clear that she intends to convert, there is no good reason to not encourage her to do so in the best manner possible, which R' Tropper does say that EJF is. <br /><br />Furthermore once it became clear that she was confused about what was and was not a true conversion, it seems to me that it is incumbent upon the Torah community to attempt to help her make good choices.<br /><br />You say <i>it lacks Kabbalat mitzvot</i>, however I know that R' Eliashiv and R' Eisenstein don't hold that way. Not for a person to start the process l'shem ishut. It is only a problem if they finish the process l'shem ishut. I am not in a position to discuss this directly with R' Eliashiv, however I have discussed it with R' Eisenstein, and also with R' Yosef. Both told me that it is up to the B"D, at the end of the process to find and decide if, at the end of the process it is being done for proper reasons.<br /><br /><i><br />2) especially, when the person seeking or being sought is wealthy with lots of money it has the impression (true most times) that it was done with the corruptible power of money.<br /></i><br /><br />Are you suggesting that we don't convert rich people?<br />Does R' Tropper refuse rich people?<br />Whatever happened to the precept that the poor and the wealthy are supposed to be equal in our eyes.<br /><br />Again I agree with you that the way the story was brought was completely unacceptable. However, aside from the various suppositions, I don't see a problem with saying that R' Tropper offered his help to someone who needed it, even if her last name was Trump. Aside from baseless allegations, all you really have is a story of R' Tropper offering his help to someone, and them turning it down because they want a quickie conversion with no comittment. I bet it happens a hundred times a year.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3219065770329223372009-10-08T00:13:11.855+02:002009-10-08T00:13:11.855+02:00"EJF in Calgary alberta are currantly being M..."EJF in Calgary alberta are currantly being Mecharav the Ex Hillel representative who has a non jewish girlfried and her kids. Not a situation of intermarried couple - boyfriend- girlfriend situation Who says EJF are not preaching to the goyim"<br /><br />AS far as I gathered *EJF* was megayer in Calgary *only* one person WHO WAS ALREADY MARRIED (as in your case "and her kids")! They do *not* engage in being megayer someone who is not married yet. They are here for years and this is their practice. It is public and common knowledge.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-44161243351474952652009-10-07T20:55:47.187+02:002009-10-07T20:55:47.187+02:00"Roni you really are obnoxious. I agree with ..."Roni you really are obnoxious. I agree with your concern but not your language".<br /><br />Motzi shem rah is much worse thanmy language.<br /><br /> "I agree with your point that the issue of R' Tropper's desire or interest to be involved in such conversions has not be established in any way ":<br /><br />More than this: In the many years that EJf exists it has been established that they do not perform conversions to boyfriends or girlfriends in order to get married.<br /><br />"- I deleted the original comment.<br />Blogger has been acting strange this afternoon - so it took a while to take care of it".<br /><br />1) Why did you not warn RAP that these things are not acceptable?<br /><br />2) did you warn him that he might get banned?<br /><br />3) you owe R Tropper a public apology for even an oness happened at this time: 1) it is not your first time, 2) sof sof, your blog was a vehicle to defame a person.<br /><br />"Please get it through your thick skull "<br /><br />you have no understanding in these matters and coming from you it is a praise.<br /><br />"that you are doing R Tropper no favors by your abusive language"<br /><br />I am exposing his enemies for what they are! <br /> <br />"and I am moving in Mekubal's direction regarding banning your comments".<br /><br />Which will demonstrate to all that you are unable to deal with issues of hotzooat diboh, sheker and milchemet sheker against one person without any basis and have a few guys coming up with lies and shmootz to defame a man.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23668978251017669462009-10-07T20:55:46.342+02:002009-10-07T20:55:46.342+02:00"Roni you really are obnoxious. I agree with ..."Roni you really are obnoxious. I agree with your concern but not your language".<br /><br />Motzi shem rah is much worse thanmy language.<br /><br /> "I agree with your point that the issue of R' Tropper's desire or interest to be involved in such conversions has not be established in any way ":<br /><br />More than this: In the many years that EJf exists it has been established that they do not perform conversions to boyfriends or girlfriends in order to get married.<br /><br />"- I deleted the original comment.<br />Blogger has been acting strange this afternoon - so it took a while to take care of it".<br /><br />1) Why did you not warn RAP that these things are not acceptable?<br /><br />2) did you warn him that he might get banned?<br /><br />3) you owe R Tropper a public apology for even an oness happened at this time: 1) it is not your first time, 2) sof sof, your blog was a vehicle to defame a person.<br /><br />"Please get it through your thick skull "<br /><br />you have no understanding in these matters and coming from you it is a praise.<br /><br />"that you are doing R Tropper no favors by your abusive language"<br /><br />I am exposing his enemies for what they are! <br /> <br />"and I am moving in Mekubal's direction regarding banning your comments".<br /><br />Which will demonstrate to all that you are unable to deal with issues of hotzooat diboh, sheker and milchemet sheker against one person without any basis and have a few guys coming up with lies and shmootz to defame a man.roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30878611730832945832009-10-07T20:03:35.633+02:002009-10-07T20:03:35.633+02:00"Why is it a problem to say that R' Tropp..."Why is it a problem to say that R' Tropper sought or even encouraged Ivanka to undergo a valid conversion through his system?"<br /><br />1) Because in general it is not valid! It is wrong to seek conversion for someone who is not married yet, in order for them to able to get married. In general it lacks kabbalat hamitzvot.<br /><br />2) especially, when the person seeking or being sought is wealthy with lots of money it has the impression (true most times) that it was done with the corruptible power of money.<br /><br />3) And to top it off, the way the story was being portrayed it seems to imply that the Rabbi was seeking them because of money!<br /><br />All of these are false charges and until they were removed they were there with the intention to libel the man.roninoreply@blogger.com