tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post730462298483222710..comments2024-03-28T02:08:17.990+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: The Brooklyn Rabbi and His Child Porn CollectionDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39121314588995745282014-08-25T08:19:35.212+03:002014-08-25T08:19:35.212+03:00BE CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN S...BE CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX OR LOVE BACK,ANY TESTIMONIES OF MOST SPELL CASTER HERE MUST BE IGNORE.BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE SCAM I MEAN REAL SCAM WHICH I WAS A VICTIM AND I GOT RIPPED OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE I WAS SO ANXIOUS TO GET MY WIFE BACK AFTER SHE LEFT ME FOR OVER 2 YEARS WITH MY 7 YEARS OLD SON JERRY,I HAVE APPLIED TO 7 DIFFERENT SPELL CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME YOUR EX NAME ADDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM WEST AFRICA UNTIL ISAW A POST ABOUT MAMA ANITA SPELL AND I DECIDED TO GAVE HER MY LAST TRAIL.SHE ASK ME FOUR THINGS MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND $180 AND SAID MY EX WILL COME BACK IN 24HOURS, I HAVE PAID OVER $3000 ON SPELL CASTING AND COURIER AND NOTHING HAVE WORK FOR ME AFTER 3 DAYS I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR SO I SAID LET ME GIVE HER A TRY SO I CALLED HER AGAIN AND SEND MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND THE $180 BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS SHE TOLD ME TO WAIT TILL NEXT DAY AND I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT BECAUSE I REALLY LOVE MY WIFE AND WANT HER BACK AT 9PM THAT DAY I SAW MY WIFE ON LINE ON FACE BOOK AND SHE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCK BECAUSE SHE NEVER TALK WITH ME FOR THE PAST A YEAR AND 9 MONTH NOW I DID NOT REPLY AGAIN SHE SAID ARE YOU THERE? I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND SHE SAID CAN WE SEE TOMORROW I SAID YES AND SHE WENT OFF-LINE I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT HER AGAIN BUT SHE WAS NO MORE ON LINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS WONDERING WHAT SHE IS GOING TO SAY, BY 7.AM THE NEXT MORNING SHE GAVE ME A MISS CALL I DECIDED NOT TO CALL BACK AS I WAS STILL ON SHOCK AGAIN SHE CALL AND I PICK SHE SAID CAN WE SEE AFTER WORK TODAY I SAID YES SO SHE END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY I GOT OFF WORK SHE CALL ME AND WE MEET AND NOW WE ARE BACK AGAIN I CALL MAMA ANITA THE NEXT DAY THANKING HER FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE IN FACT I STILL CALL HER AND THANK HER AS MY LIFE WAS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT MY WIFE PLEASE BE CAREFUL HERE I HAVE BEEN SCAM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IF YOU WANT A TRUE LOVE SPELL THEN CONTACT MAMA ANITA (mama.anitatruelovespell@gmail.com)Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-68722952973526854532014-06-01T21:48:29.051+03:002014-06-01T21:48:29.051+03:00@Mike you are fighting a number of battles at the ...@Mike you are fighting a number of battles at the same time.First of all I never called you insane - I said what you said was insane. Secondly the advice you give to an individual is not necessarily to be taken as public policy - which is what you seem to be doing. 3) I would seriously doubt whether Dr. Sorotzkin would agree with what you said. Nowhere in his ariticle does he articulate your views. There is a major difference between what advice you give someone who is incapacitated by guilt and one who is engaging in an activity because "everyone does it" and "it's healthy" and "it's really hard to stop so perhaps it isn't within my point of free-will"<br /><br />For example on this topic he quotes the Shaloh<br /><br />Those chasidim (stringent ones) who are stringent and state that there is no correcting this sin... they are the ones who induce an increase of sinning among us, and cause people to distance themselves from Hashem, since the sinner, when he hears that there is no repentance for this sin will abandon all attempts to improve himself. [These chasidim ] cause the Shechinah to go into golus and rather than be calledchasidim (stringent ones) should more properly be called “chaseirim” (lacking ones) and their punishment will be very severe.<br /><br />He is saying don't go to an extreme of guilt and hopelessness - because there are ways of atonement such as Torah study. I wasn't talking about an extreme - I was simply saying there has to be an acknowledged that sin was committed,a sense of shame and efforts to make atonement and avoid sinning in the future. I never said there was no atonement - just that there is a need to make atonement.<br /><br /> I suggest you give your rabbi your writings and ask if he thinks it appropriate. I also suggest you reread your statements again as well as Dr. Sorotzkin's article.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40171975527904137222014-06-01T20:14:55.484+03:002014-06-01T20:14:55.484+03:00Firstly at the end of this comment I will
post a l...Firstly at the end of this comment I will<br />post a link to an article by your friend, Dr Benzion Sorotzkin, that basically<br />sums up my attitude to sin and growth. Therefore you can post my comment.<br /><br />Secondly, you are seriously<br />misunderstanding me, I read through my comments and I am not sure how you think<br />I am saying what you claim I am saying. <br /><br /><br />“Your mistaken understanding is that a sin<br />is only wrong if it is unhealthy” No, if a sin is healthy it is still wrong. Even if the modern mental health world would claim that it is even healthy to masturbate in marriage (I think they do claim this) I would still not<br />masturbate, because it is against halacha. But this does not mean that masturbation is as serious as child porn. This is what disturbed me about R<br />tzadoks comments.<br /><br />“BUT THERE IS NO HETER TO SIN SIMPLY<br />BECAUSE IT IS HEALTHY” I agree! I NEVER said otherwise.<br /><br />What I am saying is that people have to be<br />realistically honest with themselves regarding what they are capable of at various stages of their lives. In a similar way, a baal teshuva from a completely secular background can’t start keeping the entire Torah all at once, because he will break.<br /><br />I think your real issue is the fact that I don’t feel guilty for masturbating when I was single. When I was single I had a chat with dr Sorotzkin, I basically told him that It was having a very bad effect on me, struggling not to masturbate and feeling guilty about it. I told him that I decide to masturbate twice a week and not feel at all guilty about it. He agreed that this was the right approach for me. Even though he disagreed<br />regarding the healthy effects of masturbation. (he did not attack me for regarding masturbation as psychologically healthy, nor did he call me insane.) <br /><br />Perhaps there are those that can overcome<br />masturbation when single,good for them! But must we condemn and reject those that feel that they cant?<br /><br />Here is a link to an article by Dr Sorotzkin That pretty much sums up my views. http://www.drsorotzkin.com/pdf/PERFECTION-AND-JUDIASM.pdfMike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48081289402463553742014-06-01T13:44:38.834+03:002014-06-01T13:44:38.834+03:00@MIke there is no need to "calm down" o...@MIke there is no need to "calm down" or "apologize" for my accurate description of your views. You lack an elementary understading of the concept of sin. So cut out the debate tactics and pay attention to what I and Rabbi Tzadok have said to you. <br /><br />Your mistaken understanding is that a sin is only wrong if it is unhealthy. Thus any sin which promotes health and growth - is not to be condemned.<br /><br />Let me try one more time. A sin is prohibited to do even if it is healthy. There are situations - which - have been carefully described in the halachic literature - in which a normally prohibited behavior is permitted and sometimes required. Calling a doctor on Shabbos to save a life or eating unkosher to avoid dying. BUT THERE IS NO HETER TO SIN BECAUSE IT IS HEALTHY.<br />There are adulterous or incestous relations which might be healthy - but they are still prohibited. Pedophilia was considered healthy in Greece. However See Sanhedrin 75a where it is was poskened that a man should rather die rather than have improper sexual relations. I assume your gemora is missing those pages?!<br /><br />A person not only has to know that sin is wrong - he needs to avoiding sinning. If he in fact sins he needs to feel bad about sinning and do teshuva. You have mentioned nothing about feeling shame for sinning or doing teshuva - which involves a commitment not to sin again.<br /><br />Homosexual relations can be healthy - it is still prohibited. Stealing can be healthy. Nonetheless sin is to stopped, is to be condemned by the mitzva of chastisment. And sin must be repented.<br /><br />In short your reasoning has nothing at all to do with Torah and halacha. You made it up yourself. that is why I challenged you to find one rabbi who agrees with you. You are repeatedly describing principles of your own religion - it is not Torah!!<br /><br />It is rather bizarre that you think that what your saying makes sense - you have absolutely nothing to justify your position. In fact with your understanding all sins should be ignored if they can be shown to be beneficial and the corrolary is that all mitzvos should be avoided if they can be shown to be detrimental. Therefore you can readily rationalize do many prohibited activities and not doing required activities - because of the single mediating princple of health. you are wrong.<br /><br />If you can not produce any rabbi who agrees with you - then I am not publishing anymore of your comments on this topic.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67836145908591768772014-06-01T13:25:30.899+03:002014-06-01T13:25:30.899+03:00R Tzadok, I dont regret my masturbation because I ...R Tzadok, I dont regret my masturbation because I know that I would be a much worse off if I didn't. <br />I would have slept around like my friends. Or other serious issues I dont need to go into details.<br />So I dont regret masturbating because I dont regret not doing worse sins and I dont regret masturbation because I dont regret not messing up my sexuality for my marrage.Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11132771353507982362014-06-01T13:10:51.590+03:002014-06-01T13:10:51.590+03:00@daas Torah, I think you need calm down. I accept ...@daas Torah, I think you need calm down. I accept your apology,for putting words in my mouth, but it is very difficuct to have a civilised conversation with someone that keeps attacking, and throwing out accusations instead of just arguing your point. <br /><br />So your issue is my view that sin can sometimes be healthy.<br />Will you acknowledge that if a starving person eats non kosher food with lots of vitamins and protein that that food is physically healthy? Is so conceptually why cant some sins be psycologicaly healthy?Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-53950740153677447232014-06-01T12:33:51.495+03:002014-06-01T12:33:51.495+03:00take lashon hara: everyone does it, but it violate...take lashon hara: everyone does it, but it violates halacha. On the other hand, lashon hara is used, especially in very frum circles, to keep members in line. (Everyone is afraid at "what will the neighbours say" "it could hurt my/my children's shidduch prospects). So, practically spekaing, lashon hara, despite being forbidden, fulfills a purpose in society, and (rabbinical) authorities, while preaching against lashon hara, use the effects of lashon hara.<br /><br /><br /> I suppose that masturbation belongs to this category. Yes, halacha forbids it, but everyone does it (by the way, I received no statement, neither from the blog author, nor from Michael Tzadok, that they never practiced it in their life.)<br /><br /><br />So, as far as I can see, both Michael Tzadok and the blog author to not say that they are better than Mike Stern because they never in their life practiced masturbation. The difference is just that they do not admit to it, so they feel they can point fingers.<br /><br /><br />This is the basis of religious hypocrisy. People preach one thing, but do something else, and point fingers at those people who are honest enough to admit that they do what the preachers do in secret.aeiounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63082790324451299712014-06-01T08:40:27.179+03:002014-06-01T08:40:27.179+03:00@Mike you are in complete denial. As I said find a...@Mike you are in complete denial. As I said find any religious authority who views your pronouncement as acceptable. You can't on the one hand acknowledge violating halacha and praising sin as being healthy and at the same time say you don't feel hallacha - even rabbinic - can be violatedDaas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5040139167844043002014-06-01T07:18:04.614+03:002014-06-01T07:18:04.614+03:00Against my better judgement:
I think it is more im...Against my better judgement:<br /><i>I think it is more important to condemn child abuse</i><br /><br />Already done and continuing. You can buy the book:<br />http://astore.amazon.com/daator-20%20%20<br /><br /><i> or slavery</i><br />Jews no longer own slaves. If they did own slaves and treated against halakha then of course there would be condemnation, but Jews no longer own slaves so condemning a non-existent practice seems a bit odd.<br /><br /><i> or spousal rape than to condemn masturbation. </i><br /><br />Already done... Once again you can buy the book.<br /><br />However why are we giving moral weight to one mitzvah over another? And how do you define what is important? Is it by your secular humanistic values or is it by Torah? <br /><br /><br />You see the imbalance in speeches and so forth as complacency. But how many Rabbis have you spoken to regarding the subjects? See most Rabbis that I have spoken to about child abuse see it as something that is simply unthinkably evil. They don't need to tell the average congregant/kollel avereich not to partake in such things... That is plain to the sight, and those that do are consider rodefim, and able to be prosecuted.<br />Spousal rape is likewise against halakha and is dealt with appropriately. To the point that a woman's husband can be forced to give her a Get(at least under Sephardi Halakhah and Rabbinut). <br />Masturbation however is not so plainly evil. Thus Rabbanim feel the need to speak out against such practices so that people will know the severity of their actions and the harm they are causing themselves psychologically and spiritually.Rabbi Michael Tzadoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76526708794158416392014-06-01T07:02:31.277+03:002014-06-01T07:02:31.277+03:00Mike you are not being entirely honest in your deb...Mike you are not being entirely honest in your debate. You said:<br /><i>I dont mean to scare you, but u really dont regret my years of masturbation, it was an integral part of my growth, and it was a healthy outlet.I even used to discuss masturbation when I was dating my wife! We were and still are very open with each other.</i><br />Which violates a number of mitzvot, both Rabbnic and D'oraitta. But then you write:<br /><i>And by the way I believe the Torah is from Hashem, and that we cant even change derabonon laws.</i><br />While you may not feel they can be abolished your actions and words clearly indicate that you feel that they can be abrogated at one's personal discretion.Rabbi Michael Tzadoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5426331444102140112014-06-01T02:47:28.588+03:002014-06-01T02:47:28.588+03:00@daas Torah regarding your quistion if I would hav...@daas Torah regarding your quistion if I would have a problem with you claiming that your list of avaroes is natual and healthy, I would have a problem with that because alot of those things are not natural and I dont think any are healthy.<br /><br />Regarding your summery of my views what part do you regard as unacceptable, that some people might not have free choice regarding certain halachos? or that these actions can be healthy, either physically or psycologicaly? or that we should have compassion on these people? <br />Or is it all of those three?Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87040536990216685862014-05-30T17:47:36.181+03:002014-05-30T17:47:36.181+03:00which quote are you talking about?which quote are you talking about?Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64795939423327117382014-05-30T17:43:01.668+03:002014-05-30T17:43:01.668+03:00"Please get me a haskoma from your rabbi or a..."Please get me a haskoma from your rabbi or any talmid chachom that he approves of this attitude - which is clearly not acceptable to Judaism"<br /><br /><br />Well, here we go again with problem of conflicting moral values and conflicting priorities in condemnation.<br /><br /><br />I think it is more important to condemn child abuse or slavery or spousal rape than to condemn masturbation. Some rabbanim, on the other hand, have other priorities. They are quite complacent for spousal rape and child abuse, but make a point in speaking out quite frequently against masturbation.aeiounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25713488068111366402014-05-30T17:38:32.054+03:002014-05-30T17:38:32.054+03:00@blog owner
You had no problem publishing Nahum...@blog owner<br />You had no problem publishing Nahum's comment (see below), which clearly advocated pedophilia...aeiounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19463150285248068962014-05-30T17:32:00.913+03:002014-05-30T17:32:00.913+03:00@blog owner
So you are saying that you never mastu...@blog owner<br />So you are saying that you never masturbated in your life, because the torah forbids it, and therefore you are a better Jew than Mike?<br /><br />Or are you just saying that you did masturbate (at least once in your life), but you never would admit it, contrary to Mike, and that therefore you are a better Jew than mike?aeiounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25849180642312967072014-05-30T17:11:26.468+03:002014-05-30T17:11:26.468+03:00@Mike if I wrote the same way you did regarding ad...@Mike if I wrote the same way you did regarding adultery, incest, cheating on taxes etc etc - without the slightest expression of guilt or shame - and with claims it is natural and healthy - would you have any problem with that?<br /><br /><br />You are saying - sorry for putting words in your mouth - "There are halachos which people have no ability to keep and in fact violating these halachos is healthy - physiologically and psychologically. Therefore when people violate these unhealhy halachos because they have no free-will regarding them - they should not be condemned or stigmatized but rather they should be shown love and compassion and understanding."<br /><br /><br />Please get me a haskoma from your rabbi or any talmid chachom that he approves of this attitude - which is clearly not acceptable to Judaism.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50592684354509910982014-05-30T16:56:28.690+03:002014-05-30T16:56:28.690+03:00again, where did i write that we can change the ha...again, where did i write that we can change the halacha about masturbation? I can kick and scream as much as i want to, but we simply cant change halacha.<br />what is your issue? <br />please be specific<br />Is it because i dont want children to think they are perverts for masturbating?. is it that i want them to know that this is completely normal and natural, and will not have negative psychological effects? <br />Are do you simple not like what i am saying?<br /><br />.Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5532030056357926312014-05-30T14:09:40.675+03:002014-05-30T14:09:40.675+03:00Daas Torah. why do you put words in my mouth, and ...Daas Torah. why do you put words in my mouth, and then attack them as being insane?<br /><br />I NEVER claimed that health and compassion trump halacha. Maybe you wish i was saying that so it would be easier for you to attack me.<br /><br />please quote me where i said that.<br /><br />Where did I say that if someone is a homosexual and is struggling that the halacha falls away?<br /><br />The only thing i wrote that i can think of that would lead you to your understanding was when i wrote<br /><br />"You are not saying that there is a halachic and human reality and they are both real, no we identify as a frum Jew, and our human soul falls away."<br /><br /><br /><br />Where did i ever say that the human reality trumps halacha?<br /><br /><br />If I am insane for having compassion on my friend that is gay, and still accepting him as my friend, then I am happy to be insane.Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1558861390455648812014-05-30T13:38:18.495+03:002014-05-30T13:38:18.495+03:00@Mike Stern - I am not really sure of how to react...@Mike Stern - I am not really sure of how to react to your comments - they appear to be insane. It is inherently impossible for a frum person to subscribe to what you said and still claim he is frum. On the other hand you claim that Torah is from G-d and you can't change rabbinic laws - so you obviously claim to be frum. <br /><br /><br />You claim that health and compassion trumps halacha. I would assume you would also say love trumps halacha. After giving validity to all the humanistic and self -centered values - there is not much left that you can claim that you subordinate yourself to G-d and his Torah as understood by the Sages. That is not even Conservative Judaism. Perhaps it is Open Orthodoxy where if you observe the mitzvos - that thoughts and actions which contradict normative halacha can be accepted.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63594611287680088992014-05-30T12:49:29.509+03:002014-05-30T12:49:29.509+03:00R Tzadok, you have taken your little bits of data ...R Tzadok, you have taken your little bits of data from the studies completely out of context, i was shocked.<br /><br />But thanks for bringing up the Masters and Johnson study. you made me do some research, and they have an interesting study regarding how a lot of the crazy and silly myths regarding masturbation originated. <br /><br /><br /><br />and you do what the consensus of the entire scientific world is, i don't need to tell you, you could even use google.<br />But i know you will say these people have such a secular bias blah,blah blah so there is no point in discussing it. if you disagree with modern science, that is your choice.<br />I don't disrespect you for that, my only real concern is when harmful information is feed to kids.<br /><br /><br />And by the way I believe the Torah is from Hashem, and that we cant even change derabonon laws.<br />Good shaboss.Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-66740155822330108582014-05-29T22:27:15.209+03:002014-05-29T22:27:15.209+03:00"Most poskim ruled that he is rodef simply fo..."Most poskim ruled that he is rodef simply for the damage and destruction he causes in the child's life."<br /><br /><br />Please provide a source that ANY Posek - Ashkenazi Sefardi, Chassidish, Mekubal - holds that somebody who looks at child pornography on the internet is a Rodef. If you can.Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35054128771473982532014-05-29T14:11:53.835+03:002014-05-29T14:11:53.835+03:00It seems to be settling down.It seems to be settling down.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-80639274594700522322014-05-28T14:23:42.746+03:002014-05-28T14:23:42.746+03:00Sorry Rabbi MT, but my allergy to incoherency prev...Sorry Rabbi MT, but my allergy to incoherency prevents me from continuing to be a sounding board for your non-Halachic rants. And I believe that Rav Yitzchak שליט"א affirmed your position, as much as I believe that the Beis Shmuel, Rav Pealim, Yabia Omer etc. agree with you. Actually, you might as well claim that EVERY Posek agrees with you - why not, as long as we're playing games? I'll even provide the sources!Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73273427361836750802014-05-28T11:59:32.816+03:002014-05-28T11:59:32.816+03:00To Rabbi MT,
My policy of continuing the dialogue...To Rabbi MT,<br /><br />My policy of continuing the dialogue with you is to hold out and proceed with the discussion as long as your comment contains at least one point which makes sense. Your last one did not, so I hereby choose to bow out of the conversation. Bye Bye.Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83527429540351531662014-05-28T06:57:51.546+03:002014-05-28T06:57:51.546+03:00R Tzadok, I dont meen to rock your boat but I have...R Tzadok, I dont meen to rock your boat but I have chatted with with many orthodox men that enjoyed masturbation when they were single and are now happily married. And dont masturbate anymore.<br /><br />Personaly I used to masturbate before I got married, but stopped afterwards one of the reasons is that it became possible for me to observe this halacha, now that I have the ultimate form of sexual intimacy. <br /><br />I dont mean to scare you, but u really dont regret my years of masturbation, it was an integral part of my growth, and it was a healthy outlet.<br />I even used to discuss masturbation when I was dating my wife! We were and still are very open with each other.<br /><br />So my quistion is really not absurd at all.<br /><br />Mike Sternnoreply@blogger.com