tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post7077201697645666376..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Weiss-Dodelson: Why don't you want to hear lashon harah about Gital and her family?Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82052467642959187322013-11-21T18:40:15.999+02:002013-11-21T18:40:15.999+02:00Disappointed,
So you have discovered that my brot...Disappointed,<br />So you have discovered that my brother is a hypocrite. All of a sudden, now that Gitel has gained the upper hand, my brother stops talking about her. My dear friend, do you really think that the filth coming out of Gitel's pen has given her the upper hand? She and her family and her rabbis have been utterly debased, they and their terror and their filth. At this point, why should my brother work hard to smash Gitel when she is doing the job herself? And if my brother suddenly became afraid of Gitel, why is he putting my stuff on the blog every day, along with the thoughts of many people who are sick and tired of the filth and the terror coming from the Dodelsons and their cousin?Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-72983643346042707392013-11-15T01:35:07.429+02:002013-11-15T01:35:07.429+02:00You hypocrite. Yes, Rabbi Eidensohn, I am talking...<i>You hypocrite.</i> Yes, Rabbi Eidensohn, I am talking to <i>you</i>.<br /><br />You have spent weeks criticizing Gital at length. Now all of a sudden, as Gital gains the upper hand, you decide it's time to stop talking about who's right and wrong and just get on with life. Contemptible.<br /><br />To make matters worse, there have been some whispers that you have your own ties to Avraham Meir and his family. That you did not disclose this at the very beginning of - and all throughout - this debate is inexcusable. You may very well be right about who's causing all the trouble, but you should at least have the decency to disclose your negios. And don't tell me that has no basis in halacha.<br /><br />My faith in you will be restored when you issue an apology to your readership.<br /><br />Disappointedhttp://www.yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73675858057200710822013-11-14T23:26:29.719+02:002013-11-14T23:26:29.719+02:00Akiva, I'm going to assume that you are genuin...Akiva, I'm going to assume that you are genuinely interested in an answer and are not just trolling. The answer is that the second the woman receives the get she ignores any hazmono you send and instead runs to court. This happens routinely in these situations. Yes, you might be able to get the beis din to issue a siruv against the ex-wife for running to court, but today most people simply ignore the siruv. Most men do not have a PR team that will get their stories in the paper. The men end up broke and broken, and their halachic claims don't matter one bit. Understand?Michelobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46664296300724945152013-11-14T23:24:10.925+02:002013-11-14T23:24:10.925+02:00Akiva: If the wife is violating his halachic right...Akiva: If the wife is violating his halachic rights, it is his halachic, legal, moral and ethical right to delay giving the Get until she corrects her unhalachic behavior towards him.Ben Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-28033060816822111602013-11-14T23:01:51.793+02:002013-11-14T23:01:51.793+02:00Akiva you keep repeating views which have no basis...Akiva you keep repeating views which have no basis in the Torah. Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41278217954567902592013-11-14T23:00:46.866+02:002013-11-14T23:00:46.866+02:00Akiva - that is not what the poskim say. Akiva - that is not what the poskim say. Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-13132745413228219312013-11-14T22:59:22.806+02:002013-11-14T22:59:22.806+02:00Akiva a brilliant idea - but it doesn't work i...Akiva a brilliant idea - but it doesn't work in real lifeDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-33208726049583009082013-11-14T22:42:26.648+02:002013-11-14T22:42:26.648+02:00Avrohom Meir's rebuttal should be obtaining a ...Avrohom Meir's rebuttal should be obtaining a Heter Meah Rabbonim for a beis din he'll compose and deposit a Get with them that Dodleson will get when she meets his requirements that he's entitled to. He can remarry then right away and the ball will be a Gital's court.Ben Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-6429755723482370702013-11-14T22:34:04.697+02:002013-11-14T22:34:04.697+02:00Why does "giving a get" "effectivel...Why does "giving a get" "effectively relinquish his halachic claims"? If he has halachic claims, give the get and then take her to Bais Din to adjudicate those claims. The only thing withholding the Get does is attempt to get her to *agree* to those claims in order to obtain the Get.Akivanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78707073616236211772013-11-14T22:27:05.061+02:002013-11-14T22:27:05.061+02:00"The issue here is – are Weiss’s conditions r..."The issue here is – are Weiss’s conditions reasonable?"<br /><br />No. The issue here is whether it is *ever* reasonable to place conditions on giving a get when all parties agree that the marriage is over. It is not. A get should not be used as a weapon or leverage, in any circumstances. Thus, the conditions are ipso facto unreasonable simply by virtue of being conditions.Akivanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-28364265783177856752013-11-14T22:24:52.855+02:002013-11-14T22:24:52.855+02:00Lakewood Guy: No more facts are needed to reach a ...Lakewood Guy: No more facts are needed to reach a conclusion. A get should never be used as a weapon or negotiating point. If the marriage is over, give the get. Period.<br /><br />Ben Torah: "No halachic obligation" and "it's right to not do so" are two completely different concepts (see m'nuval b'rshus haTorah), If the marriage is over, give the get.Akivanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-26044008780295262562013-11-14T21:14:27.067+02:002013-11-14T21:14:27.067+02:00You are exactly correct. This is a din Torah. Th...You are exactly correct. This is a din Torah. The Torah dictates the rights of each party to this matter. Boo Hoo, the Torah gave the man the upper hand. Deal with it. I happen to believe that the Torah understood how vindictive and spiteful some women can be, and that's why things are the way they are. Most men do not withhold a get out of spite, and neither is AMW.<br /><br />If this was a choshen mispot issue, should one side simply decide to be give in just because the other side bashmutzes him in public? Or because pursuing the claim in beis din might make the other side feel sad?Michelobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3225894731824855482013-11-14T20:15:22.746+02:002013-11-14T20:15:22.746+02:00PatentlyJewish - "one party slandered the oth...PatentlyJewish - "one party slandered the other in the media, while the other party chose not to."<br /><br />This is media -<br />http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/a_jewish_women_who_has_been_de.html<br />Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05760733574758883958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30805500855868873092013-11-14T19:03:48.115+02:002013-11-14T19:03:48.115+02:00A husband has no obligation to give a Get to a wif...A husband has no obligation to give a Get to a wife who is wronging him, until she stops wronging him and undoes her unhalachic actions she took against him.Ben Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52398712757134306822013-11-14T18:38:08.201+02:002013-11-14T18:38:08.201+02:00If he has legitimate halachic claims against her, ...If he has legitimate halachic claims against her, and I have no idea whether he does or whether he doesn't, why is he obligated to give her a Get and effectively relinquish his halachic claims before they are adjudicated. It might be a midas chassidus for him to do so, but why should we be forcing his hand. Are you going to make him whole for his losses? You may say that he has no halachic claims against her, monetary or otherwise, but I have no idea what claims one has against the other and you don't either if you dismiss what the parties have said about each other.Papperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07814174691583659408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36448876999831182622013-11-14T18:26:19.957+02:002013-11-14T18:26:19.957+02:00And Mark, I would also add that there's been e...And Mark, I would also add that there's been evidence this week alone that BOTH sides are playing fast and loose with the facts. <br />Nobody wants to hear about any of this anymore. Post article? Who cares?!<br />Four years. Enough already. Daniel Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25992484511811705802013-11-14T18:08:53.513+02:002013-11-14T18:08:53.513+02:00Agreed ... now, in Jewish law, the man has to give...Agreed ... now, in Jewish law, the man has to give the Get and the woman has to agree to receive the Get.<br /><br />We have no idea which party is doing what, but there is one additional fact, as Rav Leff points out ... one party slandered the other in the media, while the other party chose not to.<br /><br />Beyond that, I wish everyone would stop judging based on stuff they read on the internet when they don't know the facts.PatentlyJewishhttp://patentlyjewish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-28817833680277609042013-11-14T17:52:55.462+02:002013-11-14T17:52:55.462+02:00Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other...<b>Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other ALL of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Second Bais HaMikdosh was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam ("causeless hatred), and the third Bais HaMikdosh will only be rebuilt by Ahavas Chinom ("selfless love")! You are ALL making yourselves into a laughingstock in full view of the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To the Weisses and Dodelsons STOP IT and tell your warring kids who are fighting each other to grow up and stop acting like BABIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a disgrace.</b>Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-91359356660917181682013-11-14T17:27:36.398+02:002013-11-14T17:27:36.398+02:00Jos snow wrote:
“people don't CARE who was ri...Jos snow wrote: <br />“people don't CARE who was right. At this point only a fool can think this marriage is not over, so he should give a get and stop his extortion”.<br /><br />Sorry, Joe – People SHOULD care who IS (not past tense – present tense) right. And people should know that they don’t know!<br /><br />Here’s why:<br /><br />First, a simple fact: A. Both sides agree that the marriage is over. B.Weiss IS willing to give Dodeldsons a Get, but only UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.<br /><br />The issue here is – are Weiss’s conditions reasonable?<br /><br />In determining whether or not Weiss’s conditions are reasonable, I think “who is right and who is wrong” MAKES A WORLD OF A DIFFERENCE in this case. Here’s why:<br /><br />It’s obvious that the Weiss/Feinstein families are very upset with what they believe to be “accusations & pressures attendant to the campaign of slander” against them, which “are based on untruths & lies” (from the Weiss’s letter to R’ Zlotowitz of Artscroll). <br /><br />IF their claim of a campaign of slander against them based on lies is true, IT WOULD BE REASONABLE FOR THEM TO DEMAND THAT THE RECORD BE SET STRAIGHT. <br /><br />Why are they entitled to set the record straight? <br /><br />1) Because slander is unfair – and it leaves long-term effects on the WHOLE family. Shiduchim, business dealings, social ostracization, lost income and diminished fundraising abilities.<br /><br />2) Because it effects the negotiations inherent in divorce proceedings. If Weiss is the victim, his demand for favorable division of assets and custody should be seen much more favorably. If Dodelsons is the victim, then her claims should outweigh his.<br /><br />An honest arbitrator should attempt to ascertain: Is Weiss the tyrant that the NY POST article makes him out to be?<br /><br />An honest arbitrator would DIG DEEPER & check: Are we perhaps missing some of the facts because of: Lying…. Lying by Omission… Rationalization… Minimization… Selective inattention or selective attention… Diversion… Shaming… Playing the victim role…Vilifying the victim &… Playing the servant role? (From the wiki article I quoted earlier).<br /><br />I don’t know the facts – and the facts matter. All I know is that depending on the CONTEXT Weiss MAY or MAY NOT be a tyrant, and the same goes for Dodensons.<br /><br />I wish we had a system for ascertaining facts – it’s is so sorely lacking, in my humble opinion.<br /><br />השיבה שופטינו כבראשונה... והסר ממנו יגון ואנחה!<br /><br />Ploninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76690268989041053242013-11-14T17:24:02.880+02:002013-11-14T17:24:02.880+02:00Except we know that there are many more facts need...Except we know that there are many more facts needed to reach a true conclusion. Our lack of access to those facts should preclude us from reaching any conclusion rather than a wrong conclusion. LkwdGuynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17578434884632529112013-11-14T17:20:06.896+02:002013-11-14T17:20:06.896+02:00"At the end, I told him that it was clear tha..."At the end, I told him that it was clear that he had accepted her view without hearing the other side - a clear violation of halacha."<br /><br />A clear violation of halacha? Maybe they hold like Gestetner and his "some rishonim" who dont think you have to hear both sides. At least this guy doesnt consider himself a dayan.<br /><br />Also, did Rav Dovid ask the dodelson's if they accepted arbitration? Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29914641915735635772013-11-14T16:15:27.734+02:002013-11-14T16:15:27.734+02:00Agunah? Agunah my foot! He IS willing to give a ge...Agunah? Agunah my foot! He IS willing to give a get. She CAN buy her way out. She placed a price tag on his life to pay. Payback time is here. Let HER pay now the price of the procedure costs and rightful compensation . As of now, at best, it has nothing to do with Aguna, only whether the costs are justifiable. Do not scream WOLF, when it's only a lamb, else no one will believe you anymore. A true Agunah is when a husband is captured or lost in a war without a trace, and not when you don't want to own up to your responsibilities. As the good book says, Shalem yeshalem hamavir es haveiro. Atzas Achitofel vechilul hashemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30273379814956316932013-11-14T16:01:37.601+02:002013-11-14T16:01:37.601+02:00I agree. In this case, you have to dismiss everyth...I agree. In this case, you have to dismiss everything the girl and her family has said. You also have to dismiss everything the boy and his family has said. Everything, including what they claimed in court. After you do that, only two fact remain:<br />1. The marriage doesn't exist anymore. They've been separated for more than 4 years, and the civil divorce has been granted more than a year ago.<br />2. The girl has no get.<br /><br />Since these are the ONLY verified facts that we know, we have to reach our conclusions using these facts, and only these facts. Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05760733574758883958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-62089205113343205232013-11-14T15:51:54.893+02:002013-11-14T15:51:54.893+02:00NO, people don't CARE who was right. At this p...NO, people don't CARE who was right. At this point only a fool can think this marriage is not over, so he should give a get and stop his extortion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17843865056166381291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83897813081630553842013-11-14T15:39:16.815+02:002013-11-14T15:39:16.815+02:00"What you and the rest of the Weiss supporter..."What you and the rest of the Weiss supporters don't get is that the public is NOT interested in the facts of how their marriage fell apart and most people are NOT supporting Gital because they think she was right.<br /><br />To the public it is unconscionable that after 4 years of separation, where it is totally clear and understood to all that this marriage is over, that a husband can still withhold a Get. It is this mindset that people are protesting and supporting her. "<br /><br />Same here! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17843865056166381291noreply@blogger.com