tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post632931911203960004..comments2024-03-19T10:06:55.071+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: EJF - Rabbi Tropper responds to my criticismDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47479409745684723112009-06-30T20:53:58.147+03:002009-06-30T20:53:58.147+03:00Daas Torah said...
Mekubal wrote:
Once a...Daas Torah said...<br /><br /> Mekubal wrote:<br /><br /> Once again Roni, you can read things anyway you like, but that is not what this says. This says, "And that there is to take hold of the understanding that it is permitted to teach Torah to a Goy if his mind is to convert." I am convinced that either you do not know Hebrew or that you are intentionally misreading these statements.<br /><br /> Your rejection of R' Efrati's letter of clarification is ridiculous. He is R' Eliashiv's right hand man. Is he lying? Is he woefully misinformed?<br /><br /> At the request of R' Eidensohn I asked R' Eisenstein about R' Efrati's clarification. His statement was that he understood R' Eliashiv's position the same way.<br /> ==================<br /> With the confirmation from both Rav Efrati and Rav Eisenstein that Rav Eliashiv's teshuva 3:140 is not talking about proselytizing or inspiring a nonJew to convert - I think it is time to end this thread.<br /><br /> Roni - any more repetition of your distorted and abusive ad hominem comments will simply be rejected. Whether it is your problematic readings of Rav Eliashiv and other poskim or whether it is your reflex denunciation of R' Bomzer. Enough is enough. However you have served the valuable service of confirming for us the tenuous and problematic nature of R' Tropper's authority to do what he is doing.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-90021632343316256022009-06-30T04:20:25.630+03:002009-06-30T04:20:25.630+03:00you enable bomzer to bring A MILLION EREEV RAV; TR...you enable bomzer to bring A MILLION EREEV RAV; TROPPER STOPS THE AWCOND MILLION FROM COMING IN!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21104563528609318702009-06-29T09:53:37.999+03:002009-06-29T09:53:37.999+03:00Roni's mantra is "THAT YOU ENABLED BOMZER...Roni's mantra is "THAT YOU ENABLED BOMZER TO JOIN KLAL YYISROEL" --but guess what? I have never met Bomzer not would I know him if I saw him. I have nothing to do with Bomzer's or anyone's conversions. I have nothing to do with him, nor have I ever sent him anyone to be megayer, on the other hand you/Tropper/EJF run after goyim all over America and preach a forbidden new testament screed of recruiting and converting infinite numbers of gentiles justifying it with cockamamy "heterim" and sevoras from this and that gadol who never intended their limited words to be applied as you do for mass conversions and forbidden proselytizations. Get real and be a mentsch by talking to the point instead of looping the loop a thousand times.Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14495166450843017992009-06-28T06:13:42.766+03:002009-06-28T06:13:42.766+03:00THe Erev Rav were a large number...the numbers tha...THe Erev Rav were a large number...the numbers that EJf's actually covnerts do not reach the FRACTION OF EREV RAV THAT YOU ENABLED BOMZER TO JOIN KLAL YYISROEL!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86675581490782123562009-06-26T19:21:10.558+03:002009-06-26T19:21:10.558+03:00Roni have you ever noticed or counted the number o...Roni have you ever noticed or counted the number of times that you/Tropper/EJF are challnged about EJF's outright known publicized goals of proselytizing to millions and billions of goyim (to mad there are zillions, right?) that automtically, instead of answering the question fully, which sometimes you start doing but then you get lost in the minutia of details that anyone can argue ten different ways, that your standard response and defense is to fire your red herring smokescreen and diversions button and you start screaming "Bomzer, Bomzer" like a banchee and you honestly expect that that it takes away the attntion or the need to stick to one subject, EJF's forbidden proselytizations to millions and billions of goyim as they please when this has never been done in the entire history of Klal Yisroel? <br /><br />Even Moshe Rabbeinu did not recruit the Eruv Rav but they came and joined willingly to Bnai Yisroel when they sawe the makkos and what happened to Mitzrayim, unlike EJF with its delusions of recruitment power that thinks that by using the modern miracles of Internet communications and the power of high priced million dollar concerted and planned PR to its dirty proselytization work, as if this is an election campaign in the US, that somehow or other, because you can cite a few meforshim with references to conversions shaylos and NOTHING to do with mass proselytizations of millions and billions of goyim, that you are on "safe ground" and that you have the right to kill off any criticism that comes your/Tropper's/EJF's way.<br /><br />You are making a big mistake.Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-57126914955262697082009-06-26T16:46:56.905+03:002009-06-26T16:46:56.905+03:00again the rotzer whois mvazeh Rav Reuven FEinstein...again the rotzer whois mvazeh Rav Reuven FEinstein and the owner of this blog allows it!<br /><br />Shoteh and chayoh rooh: Rav Reuven states that Rav MOshe, Rav Henkin, Rav Kamenetsky, Rav Aurbach ALL OPPOSED RAV STERNBUCH'S POSITION!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83342008651172035082009-06-26T12:33:04.440+03:002009-06-26T12:33:04.440+03:00I agree with Rav Shternbuch 100% both in his posit...I agree with Rav Shternbuch 100% both in his position on geirus and in his position against EJF and Tropper.<br /><br />Rav Shternbuch is a true posek, is inovlved in hora'ah over a lifetiumes and his seforim are learned and rtespcted in the entire Torah world, he and sits as a dayan, ra'avad on the Bais Din of the BADATS in Yerushalayim (yet you/Tropper have had no problem in being mevaze him many times) while Rav Reuven Feinstein is a rosh yeshiva of a smallish yeshiva in far out Staten Island, that's all. What don't I get?Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89315575308356965712009-06-26T03:25:07.077+03:002009-06-26T03:25:07.077+03:00You give a hoot about Bomzer so that is the reason...You give a hoot about Bomzer so that is the reason you are up on arms against Tropper for he takes away your bus$$$iness. when you quote Rav Stenrbuch give a look what he holds about the gerut that you sent him~! Rav Sternbuch says that they cannot get married!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9361196553179615112009-06-25T23:02:39.137+03:002009-06-25T23:02:39.137+03:00Roni, who is talking about Bomzer? Tropper's i...Roni, who is talking about Bomzer? Tropper's inordinate obsessive-compulsive fixation on Bomzer is bizarre. Noone on this blog gives a hoot about Bomzer, but as far as is known (correct this if it's not true) he is still a member of good standing of the RCA last anyone heard so it must mean that they approve of him as a rov. It's part of the Modern Orthodox world that noone can do much about by jumping up and own like a haredi hooligan creating yet another chillul Hashem berabim. Get a grip on yourself, you are beginning to sound unhinged.Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-24091273141070867702009-06-25T20:55:51.431+03:002009-06-25T20:55:51.431+03:00RAP,
BOMZER IS A POSSUL DAYAN AND ALL THE GERIM T...RAP,<br /><br />BOMZER IS A POSSUL DAYAN AND ALL THE GERIM THAT YOU SENT HIM AND PARTOOK SOME $$$ ARE GOYIM GMURIM; TROPPER'S GRIM ARE YIDDEN...ALL YOUR NARISHKEYTEN AND AMORZATZUS WON'T ERASE THIS...RAV TROPPER HAS BASIS FOR WHAT HE DOES FROM POSSKIM LIKE RAV MOSHE AND RAV ELYASHIV; WHAT YOU $$$ AND BOMZER DO IS NOT COVERED AND PERMITTED BY ANY ROV WORTH HIS NAME!RONInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-7929163186809660822009-06-25T18:32:33.988+03:002009-06-25T18:32:33.988+03:00Any excuse, right Roni?Any excuse, right Roni?Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64152056539437830992009-06-25T10:50:48.262+03:002009-06-25T10:50:48.262+03:00Hoda'as baal din kemei'ah eidim dami: Roni...Hoda'as baal din kemei'ah eidim dami: Roni/Tropper finally admits and gives his own reasons that EJF is NOT a halachicly valid organization and has NOT been certified as kosher in any way (noone would eat at a pizza store without a teuda-certificate of kashrus), so why would anyone want to imbibe EJF when it has no teuda (but it has teudot-letters by Rav Shternbuch and the BADATS forbidding it) and its spokeman comes here and admits to the world, you know what, EJF does not deserve a teudah as Roni/Tropper OPENLY admits that:<br /><br />"a) Being thatit is a novel approach. Practically speaking this method was not used especially with such an intensity therefore any respected RESPONSIBLE POSSEK would not necessarily want to to put his paper to endorse an organization if CHas Vesholom it does not uscceeded to recah the hopeful goals.<br /><br />b) Maybe others may follow suit and misuse the idea of the organization to take it a step further and perform these covnersions iwtout kabbalat hamitzvot. He does not want to take this ublic step to put his name on paper to that level.<br /><br />c) and no RAbbi put's his name to sign on an organization which may in the future stumble on occasion and do soemthing that is not correct and then people migh tmistake that this particular acation had the apporval of the Rabbi as he signed on the organization."<br /><br />[...]Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64983318026130147802009-06-25T03:07:28.113+03:002009-06-25T03:07:28.113+03:00Ahavah,
I thought your question earlier deserveas...Ahavah,<br /><br />I thought your question earlier deserveas answer. thank you for reminding that you deserve no answer!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9103416279835189802009-06-25T02:07:21.822+03:002009-06-25T02:07:21.822+03:00Somebody needs to get Roni some meds. That proble...Somebody needs to get Roni some meds. That problem with his ability to write grammatical and properly spelled sentences fading in and out randomly surely indicates a brain tumor - or maybe he's possessed.Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36868900849690038892009-06-25T01:55:31.739+03:002009-06-25T01:55:31.739+03:00Oni: CHAS VESHOLOM CHAS VECHALILA! talks from orig...Oni: CHAS VESHOLOM CHAS VECHALILA! talks from origins of a non ben torah way of analysis! TRansparency has to be done! and discussions have to be made! but you cannot demand hashgocho for a particular organization in such kind of insitituion!<br />===============<br />DT: Here we go again! EJF is not being transparent if Rav Sternbuch can not get information about your halachic principles and goals.<br /><br />ROni: Again the distortions! Can you stop distort? <br /><br />!) I NEVER said that there CAN BE NO DISCUSSIONS. Where did I write any such thing? I'm sorry: you demand transprency and any one can criticize; but you tihnk you are beyond criticsm? vyou are unable to analyze something straight! you aRE always twisting! LIKE A NON BEN TORAH! YES AM ALLLOOWED TO CRITICIZE YOU FOR TWISTRING AND NOT THINKING CLEAR!<br /><br />Listen: I never said you cannot criticize from the outside! Quote me where I said this! I said you cannot deamnd a *hashgocho* for a particular mossad of trhis sort. You could criticize and you could ask for the halachk principles that guide you. and WHEN GIVEN THE INFORMATION YOU SHOULD STOP CRITCIZING ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE! <br /><br />dt WROTE: "But that doesn't mean there can not be disagreement and criticsm from those outside the organiztion. Rav Moshe Feinstein himself did not demand such an attitude of docile subservience".<br /><br />roNI: oF COURSE YOU COULD respectfully disagree. But at the end you cannot raise "ERav Sternbuch said such and such" for RAV REUVEN IS ENTITLED TO ARGUE WITH HIM AND ESPCIALLY THAT RAV HE IS REPEATING RAV MSOHE'S OPINION; AND A LITTLE MORE OF *RESPECT* TOWARDS THAT POSITION CAN HELP THE DISCUSSION. AND AT THE END WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO HIS CRITICISM RAV TROPPER HAS THE BACKING OF RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN! AND YOU MAY ACKNOWLEGGE IT ALBEIT YOU GET THE INFO TWO YEARS LATER...NONETHELESS THE BACKING IS RIGHT HERE IN FRONT YOUR EYES! JUST THINK CLEAR AND STRAIGHT!<br /><br /><br />dT" Your concept of transparency seems to mean that it only applies within the closed circles of EJF. That is not what transparency has ever meant".<br /><br />rOni: never said it! begin thinking straight. but transparency does not mean that your criticism is valid. And on the other hand once your criticism is no longer valid you should acknowledge that it is no longer valid! Even *You* are beyond transparency!Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81274063460660764632009-06-25T01:30:06.700+03:002009-06-25T01:30:06.700+03:00roni said:
DT:" In sum, you are saying that m...roni said:<br />DT:" In sum, you are saying that my request for transparency in what you are doing can not be done and furthermore you must deny that you are not being transparent or innovative":<br /><br />ROni: CHAS VESHOLOM CHAS VECHALILA! talks from origins of a non ben torah way of analysis! TRansparency has to be done! and discussions have to be made! but you cannot demand hashgocho for a particular organization in such kind of insitituion!<br />===============<br />Here we go again! EJF is not being transparent if Rav Sternbuch can not get information about your halachic principles and goals. Your nonsense about non ben Torah way of analysis is just another smoke screen.<br /><br />You again are substituting rants for discussion. <br /><br />It is nice that after repeatedly asking for two years the EJF finally releases the teshuva of Rav Reuven. It is nice that after two years there is some acknowledgement that EJF's approach is a chidush. <br /><br />But that doesn't mean there can not be disagreement and criticsm from those outside the organiztion. Rav Moshe Feinstein himself did not demand such an attitude of docile subservience.<br /><br />Your concept of transparency seems to mean that it only applies within the closed circles of EJF. That is not what transparency has ever meant. <br /><br />BTW I hope you finally accept what Rav Sternbuch has told you - that he does not object to his views being presented and discussed on the internet.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39521273751017627962009-06-25T00:43:02.827+03:002009-06-25T00:43:02.827+03:00DT:" In sum, you are saying that my request f...DT:" In sum, you are saying that my request for transparency in what you are doing can not be done and furthermore you must deny that you are not being transparent or innovative":<br /><br />ROni: CHAS VESHOLOM CHAS VECHALILA! talks from origins of a non ben torah way of analysis! TRansparency has to be done! and discussions have to be made! but you cannot demand hashgocho for a particular organization in such kind of insitituion!<br /><br />And it does not arouse any opposition and suspicion from a honest person who is not intersted just to fight Rav GTropper at all costs, for when sees that Rav REvuen FEinstein is with him in the halachik committee and he they come at all conventions and DUSCUSS HALACHIK ISSUES ON HOW TO AMELIROATE AND TO FIX THE AND ENHANCE THE GERUT PROCESS (FOR IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE: DURING THOSE CONVENTIONS, BESIDES THE SPEECHES THAT GET TO THE PRESS, THEY DISCUSS HALACHIK ISSUES AND POLICIES ) then of course the person starts from the perspective that the organization is valid. And now, as you can see, Rav Tropper has the foundation ground backing in the general bone of the apporach of the organizatiuon which is the permission to mekarev intermarried couples to get to covnert if they are sincere and want to commit to rah and mitzvot then you can understand that he wha he does is discussed with the Rabbis and you can certainly and should raise questions. but this will only work if you begin with a premise that the guy has halachik backing as he does, but if you begin with perconceived notions that RT ...then nothing that I'll bring you from this or that Rov would not work.<br /><br />In sum: 1) Rav Tropper has Halachik backing for his general approach by Rabbonim like Rav Reuven which is a cornerstone piece in his organization, 2) One can and should raise questions if he finds halachik flaws. 3) He should give the benefit of the doubt (when he begins the criticism) that he has Rabbis backing in general so either: the probelm was addressed or that there was was a lapse or heeder simas lev about particular detail, 4) A particular *haskomoh* for a *particular* organization cannnot be demanded, 5) ALL THOSE WHO CLAIMED THAT HE HAS NO HALACHIK STANDING FOR HIS APPROACH AND THAT RAV REUVEN WAS GOING AGAINST FATHER SHOULD ASK MECHILA FOR THIS FALSE DISSEMINATION OF AND DEFAMATION! and tehn we can proceeed,<br /><br />It is obvious that I request and demand tha tthere be no flow of messages that contain zilzul at Rav REuven FEinstein Shlita, that goes without saying but things have gone out of hand in the past so i ask that they should not go out of hand now.Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76699318945712070162009-06-25T00:42:24.192+03:002009-06-25T00:42:24.192+03:00Dt wrote: "I find this an astonishing analysi...Dt wrote: "I find this an astonishing analysis. You are admitting 1) R' Tropper's approach is a chidush",<br /><br /><br />ROni: Dear Dt it does not take an Einstein to understand that this is an innovative way of working (within Halacha). For no responsible Halachik body has done it Halachikally (they have done for past 100 and more years the bomzer factories).<br /> <br /><br />DT:"2) It might fail so therefore it is best not to discuss the halachic justification because really it is ais la'asos such as Beis Yaakov. "<br /><br />Roni: Now you are falling back to the trap of non bney torah talk! (and i beg yor forgiveness for saying so but this is exactly the kind of non taljk). I never said it is best not discuss the halachik justifications; it is exactly what I'm doing and giving you the teshuva of Rav reuven and his opinion of his father. I i'm giving you a justification for not having a Rabbi give a particular written haskomoh for an *organization* that does it. Why can't you be mavchin the difference like a ben torah (sorry again)?<br /><br /><br />DT:" 3) If it proves itself then discussion can be allowed as to the halachic basis":<br /><br />Again the non ben torah kind of talk! I'm NOT talking about lack of *discussion* and guidance and halachik backing; obviously Rav Tropper has aHalachik comittee and Rav REuven is the head of the comittee with other rabbis! and he (and so ANY organization) should not DO anything without halachik guidance; whAT i'm saying is that to give a haskomoh to a *particular* organization is still a little early in the game! But aain of course i'm for halachik discussion about it!<br /><br />DT:" 4) Thus because it represents a signifcant break from the past - any discussion will only prevent it from functioning. Since the perceived emergency situation calls out for something to be done the main issue is success not halachic correctness".<br /><br />ROni: It's very upsetting that you can infer this from I have said!? We are discussing and answering Mekubal why Rav Tropper does not have a written baking about his particualr organization. But of course, he has Halachik backing and discussion to everything he is doing. And of course if something is done wrong I"m sure Rav Reuven will call his attention or another Rabbi (and this is so [precisely because it is a new kind of organization) and they will discuss it and others can (and should) RESPCTFULLY DISCUSS or raise problems in particular applications thereoff. but this after the premise that he the halachik backing for the general approach WHICH HE HAS AS EVIDENCED BY THE CLEAR TESHUVA OF RAV REUVEN TO HIM BASED ON THE PSSOKIM OF THE POSSEK HADOR RAV MSOHE FEINSTEIN!<br /><br />dT:" 5) Because it is a major break from mesora - there is a decided danger that those who are not guided by gedolim will feel justified in other innovations that will be destuctive to the system".<br /><br />roNI: AGAIN A LEAP FROM A NON BEN TORAH TRAINING! i'M TALMKING ABOUT THE GIVVING OF A PARTICULAR HASKOMOH TO PARTICULAR MOSSAD AND THE RAMIFICATIONS THAT MAY ARISE FROM THIS PARTICULA R HASKOMOH. but of course, he must have backing for his approach by asking shaylos about policies and decisions if and how they should conform to the best hlaachik outcome.Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87215549435619628722009-06-25T00:37:49.861+03:002009-06-25T00:37:49.861+03:00Roni says: "And at the same time R' Trop...Roni says: "And at the same time R' Tropper's energy is focused into hel[ping those couples who approach him to help them covnert WHEN THEY ARE SINCERE!"<br /><br />And who gets to decide whether or not they are "sincere?" Is he rejecting people who are WITHIN the halachic framework simply because they choose not to be Chereidi or fund his community? What is the basis for insisting on chumras/stringencies that all of our grandparents never heard of or practiced to be the standard for new converts? By those standards NOBODY is really Jewish, because we all know good and well - there are plenty of photographs - that in the early part of this century Orthodox women dressed like normal American women and were not distinctive in any way, Jewish immigrant kids went to school with other Americans and associated with them, pretty much everyone had a business or day job, women raised their own kids, not daycare, and so on and so on. <br /><br />How is it that Tropper gets to insist on standards that everybody here's grandparents and great-grandparents and probably even parents (for many) did not hold to? Where does he get such power - who gave it to him and is it legitimate and according to halacha? Other Rabbis seem to be saying "no."Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52003702954509827592009-06-24T23:03:02.957+03:002009-06-24T23:03:02.957+03:00Roni wrote:
4) the most important question: Why d...Roni wrote:<br /><br />4) the most important question: Why does he not get haskamot?<br /><br />I'll give you possible answers which do not mean that they do not agree with him. a) Being thatit is a novel approach. Practically speaking this method was not used especially with such an intensity therefore any respected RESPONSIBLE POSSEK would not necessarily want to to put his paper to endorse an organization if CHas Vesholom it does not uscceeded to recah the hopeful goals.<br /><br />b) Maybe others may follow suit and misuse the idea of the organization to take it a step further and perform these covnersions iwtout kabbalat hamitzvot. He does not want to take this ublic step to put his name on paper to that level.<br /><br />c) and no RAbbi put's his name to sign on an organization which may in the future stumble on occasion and do soemthing that is not correct and then people migh tmistake that this particular acation had the apporval of the Rabbi as he signed on the organization.<br />==================<br />I find this an astonishing analysis. You are admitting 1) R' Tropper's approach is a chidush 2) It might fail so therefore it is best not to discuss the halachic justification because really it is ais la'asos such as Beis Yaakov. 3) If it proves itself then discussion can be allowed as to the halachic basis 4) Thus because it represents a signifcant break from the past - any discussion will only prevent it from functioning. Since the perceived emergency situation calls out for something to be done the main issue is success not halachic correctness. 5) Because it is a major break from mesora - there is a decided danger that those who are not guided by gedolim will feel justified in other innovations that will be destuctive to the system.<br /><br />In sum, you are saying that my request for transparency in what you are doing can not be done and furthermore you must deny that you are not being transparent or innovative. This of course arouses suspicious and opposition to what you are doing by you need to bite the bullet and ignroe questions.<br /><br />That brings back my original question - by responding to my blog you seriously undermine your position. If what you say is true - it would have been better if 1) you had a private meeting with Rav Sternbuch 2) you ignored me.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9647280553888018532009-06-24T22:43:07.287+03:002009-06-24T22:43:07.287+03:00Mekubal,
I'll try again but try to be brief (...Mekubal,<br /><br />I'll try again but try to be brief (sent you a longer message earlier):<br /><br />1) You cannot begin to compare rabbonim who say something nice about an individual ) to when they come and speak about an organization. that reuqires a much greater achrayut and responsibility. Especially when some critcize it. And especially speaking publicly about the important task it performs and that it benefits klal yisroel to proect kedushat Yisroel and prevent gerus sheker it would be disastrous if they do not mean what they say and irrespojnsible if they say these things publicly when hundrds of people attend and many more can get their tales if the truth would actually be the reverse,<br /><br />2) They do not come as "observers" only; they partake and partner sto it.<br />Rav REuven is an active MEMBER of tghe organization. you cannot just ignore this and belittle it significance for what it actually really is.<br /><br />3) Rav Tropper does not waste his time on "internet wars"! ROni (who IS NOT rt) wastes his time and energy on it!<br /><br />4) the most important question: Why does he not get haskamot?<br /><br />I'll give you possible answers which do not mean that they do not agree with him. a) Being thatit is a novel approach. Practically speaking this method was not used especially with such an intensity therefore any respected RESPONSIBLE POSSEK would not necessarily want to to put his paper to endorse an organization if CHas Vesholom it does not uscceeded to recah the hopeful goals. <br /><br />b) Maybe others may follow suit and misuse the idea of the organization to take it a step further and perform these covnersions iwtout kabbalat hamitzvot. He does not want to take this ublic step to put his name on paper to that level. <br /><br />c) and no RAbbi put's his name to sign on an organization which may in the future stumble on occasion and do soemthing that is not correct and then people migh tmistake that this particular acation had the apporval of the Rabbi as he signed on the organization. <br /><br />But on the other hand Rav REuven partakes himself as member of the Organization. He is involved in guiding them in the Halachik Shaylos and so on. You can see the TEshuva that I poosted erarlier (and I"ll try BLN to scan it to Dt) has the teshuva Rav Reuven wrote to EJF where he rules on the focal question of the blog to Rav Tropper and he cites that his father the Possek HaDor HaRAv MOshe Feinstein of B"m permitted the issue in certain conditions (which is exaclty what EJF attempts to follow).Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67310357691673699152009-06-24T22:30:43.336+03:002009-06-24T22:30:43.336+03:00MT/Bomzer!
Tropper!,
Since you are very confused...MT/Bomzer!<br /><br />Tropper!,<br /><br />Since you are very confused person it is very hard to clear out your confusion:<br /><br />1)RAbbi Tropper has the backing of dozens of Posskim and Rabbonim. He does not backing of all gedoyley Yisroel. And ertainly he does not need the backing of the internet blgos! and certainly not from MT/Bomzer! who has no backing whatsover from any Gedoyley Posskim; on the contrary they repudiate his conversions.<br /><br />He might be aware that Rav Sternbuch might not agree with his approach. A Godol is certainly entitled to his own opinion even if it differs with the vast majority of popinions of the posskim. But he feels that the owner of the blog has misused the Possek to fight the iwar over the internet with MT being his spokesman. It is not respectful neither to Rav Sternbuch or anyone by bringing him to areas where the message was not intended to be presented and misinterpreted. <br /><br />For some of the supporters of Rav Tropper you can see, for instnace, Rav REuven FEinstein Shlita that spports and actually wrote a responsa (whose excerpts i posted earler) that clearly allow Rav Tropper to do many of things that EJf does.<br /><br />While it is a step in the right direction that you do not state that Rav TRopper calls individua people to conert; he does not stand in the street corners missionizing and call them to sprinke water on them; nevertheless what you say that he icalls rabbis who are involved in kiruv who have contact with intermarried couples is actually something that is not prohibited according to Rav Moshe FEinstein according to REv Reuven FEinstein Shlita! It is permissible according to them to be mekarev intermarried couples, including the non jewish partner when they show interest in performing a sincere conversion ie. observing Torah and mitzvot! (unlike the fraudulent services performed by Bomzer who peforms gerus for these itnermarried couples when they do not want to observe plain shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. Like driving on the Sabbath and th elike).Roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1541651430752432722009-06-24T22:24:50.141+03:002009-06-24T22:24:50.141+03:00Roni said...
what is your email so that I ca...Roni said...<br /><br /><br /> what is your email so that I can try to scan it to you? yadmoshe@gmail.com<br /><br /> (where is my last reply to mekubal?)<br /><br />According to Blogger I have processed all the comments that I have received.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67837246263387954862009-06-24T22:20:02.535+03:002009-06-24T22:20:02.535+03:00AAron,
Exactly! what he told me then. So he told ...AAron,<br /><br />Exactly! what he told me then. So he told me then that he didn't mean that this letter be used on public arena to share this fight through the internet. While he went out of the way because it was in yeerushalayim as you explain he still felt that it was not prooper to use his letters over the internet and this was what they meant with the letter! (and actually for a while these letters disappeared from the form they were disseminated here "beshochbecha uvkumecha").roninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65036469989509440202009-06-24T22:17:13.877+03:002009-06-24T22:17:13.877+03:00Rav REuven claims that Rav MOshe uses this as an a...Rav REuven claims that Rav MOshe uses this as an additional reason why we should reconvert her so that there is takanat hashavim so her husband do teshvua it is a mitzvah to engage in it. Rav Reuven understands that conceptually Rav Moshe holds that there is inyan and mitzvah to help the jjewish partner by converting the jewish partner (ie. in addition to the first reason given in *that specifi case* where she anyway a safek giyoret) so that given the conditions it is an inyan to convert the non jewish partner so that the jewish partner do tesvhua (even if he initially intermarried her!) contrary to what was stated in Rav MOshe's opinion on this blog1<br /><br /> what is your email so that I can try to scan it to you?<br /><br />(where is my last reply to mekubal?)Roninoreply@blogger.com