tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post6071611751859954016..comments2024-03-19T00:38:47.904+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Beis din decides seminary owner Meisels poses risk to studentsDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52251241374357476972019-03-10T07:09:31.465+02:002019-03-10T07:09:31.465+02:00I come to this very late, because I was searching ...I come to this very late, because I was searching on the rabbi Meisels' name. The reason is that his Daf Yomi, which is online, is really outstanding. I wanted to hear more of him. And suddenly I am looking at a page of links about this scandal.<br /><br />His Daf Yomi is not outstanding because of his charisma. I have never seen the rabbi. It's outstanding because of the organization and interpretation of the material he is covering. As a former professor myself, I can recognize this. Brilliance, total command so as to be able to make a presentation both clear and deep. My time will be very well spent listening to his lectures. I have no other interest than that.<br /><br />There's a quote in your first link:<br /><br />"the overtly charismatic personality almost always masks far more sinister agendas, and must be treated and managed with the utmost caution. The tipping point is where the personality of the teacher/rabbi is more important than the content of his message or teaching."<br /><br />Well I don't know if what he does comes across as "overtly charismatic" to others. I admire his skill, that's all. But if someone's too good, just miles ahead, let's treasure that if at all possible.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59297903004229176812014-09-07T02:02:16.673+03:002014-09-07T02:02:16.673+03:00Please post this in a more recent post were everyo...Please post this in a more recent post were everyone can see it.LikesToKnownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60502221643484560972014-09-03T05:57:10.072+03:002014-09-03T05:57:10.072+03:00Firstly, after all of us in the yeshivah world hav...Firstly, after all of us in the yeshivah world have participated and endorsed the Kinnus on the internet, it shocks me how we endulge in blogs under a religious banner, while it is pure Loshon Harah and Rechilus. <br />I have no vested interest at all in any side of this debate. I do know people who have sent their daughters to the seminaries and feel indebted to Meisels for how he had helped their daughters get ''back'' on the straight and narrow path. Besides that, I have no interest I any of the parties. I have watched this thing unfold and did decide to try to verify some facts and have managed to get some inside information from a client of mine who is involved in the Torah world. He explained to that there were quite a few Rabbonim working on this from the sidelines that most people are not aware of because these Rabbonim are trying to keep a big distance from the Chicago group. <br />There are also some very very shocking audio tapes out there, that I hope surface for the public to hear. Because if and when they do, people will be lining up to apologize to Meisels. <br />A few things are Very clear.<br />1) Fyrst, Cohen and Gottesman are nothing but gangsters that had no problem with destroying an innocent human being for personal gain.<br />2) Meisels never did what he is accused of.<br />3) The Novominsker Rebbe, on behalf of the Agudath Yisroel, notified Gottesman that he no longer has any affiliation with the Agudah and from this point on, he may not represent himself as part of the Agudah. After a little investigation a team of Rabbonim together with the Novominsker realize the evil and corruption that was practiced by the Chicago team.<br />4) Should the people, that have collected all the audio tapes, decide to use it against the Chicago group, Fyrst, Gottesman and others from the Chicago group would likely go to prison.Moskowitznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1594645359325813002014-07-21T20:27:49.637+03:002014-07-21T20:27:49.637+03:00The rabbeim and Roshei Yeshiva at YU disagreed wit...The rabbeim and Roshei Yeshiva at YU disagreed with him and publicly called that event a chillul Hashem.<br /><br />I therefore do find it ironic for him to get involved in matters of sexual impropriety, and for him to publicly challenge the Israeli Beis Din. <br /><br />His letter may be sincere. However, it would be better left for him to have asked a colleague of his to write it. Or, he could have asked Rabbi Hoffman to write it. (If they feel that such a letter should not be written, then he should deffer to them since he has already made a judgment call in matters of sexual propriety that he was roundly and publicly criticized for.) He is not the appropriate person to publicly get involved in a matter like this.<br /><br />As Rabbi Eidensohn pointed out - there is a disagreement between the Chicago Beis Din and Israeli Beis Din as to what needs to be done at this point. <br /><br />To the potential students, and their parents to whom this is relevant, they will hopefully make an informed and sound decision. I agree that they should be made aware of the facts. Rabbi Hoffman presented it in a respectful fashion. He did not in engage in sensationalism.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52562909446209728802014-07-21T20:08:36.005+03:002014-07-21T20:08:36.005+03:00I do disagree with the way you question the Israel...I do disagree with the way you question the Israeli Beis Din. Calling their actions, or lack thereof, <em>outrageous</em> is inappropriate. The Chicago Beis Din can disagree with their Israeli <strong>counterparts</strong>. And even they would do it in a respectful tone.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-59986591061281088132014-07-21T19:30:35.177+03:002014-07-21T19:30:35.177+03:00What is confirmed is that the Chicago Beis Din can...What is confirmed is that the Chicago Beis Din can write a 'letter'. Have they updated their last one yet? Or should we 'downgrade' to hear/say ?ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-51934314741938450822014-07-21T19:19:08.596+03:002014-07-21T19:19:08.596+03:00Who do you a acuse of 'voyeurism'? the cas...Who do you a acuse of 'voyeurism'? the casual readers? or the people who claim to call the Beis to to get more details?<br /><br />You seem unable to distinguished between the two.<br /><br />The CBD has spoken clearly. Most readers can understand what it says without anyones help.<br /><br />Some readers (usualy Blog owners) seem to be 'unsatisfied' unless they get more details, from anywhere, even fabricated ones.<br /><br />I simply don't believe the Chicago Beis Din is 'playing' along with them.<br /><br />Period.ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77084948105644122832014-07-21T19:15:24.440+03:002014-07-21T19:15:24.440+03:00You're right. I will try to edit my comments. ...You're right. I will try to edit my comments. I apologize.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40896679307773318222014-07-21T18:46:00.451+03:002014-07-21T18:46:00.451+03:00@Honesty
Yerachmiel Lopin is clearly right on ...@Honesty <br /><br /><br /><br />Yerachmiel Lopin is clearly right on this one. His understanding was directly confirmed by Rabbi Yair Hoffman in his recent letter written after he discussed the matter with a member of the Chicago Beis Din. The Chicago Beis Din did not hand over the matter and walk away. Until they are satisfied that the seminaries are safe and thate Meisels is not going to cause harm - they are not saying it is safe to go to one of his seminaries.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85811594366595401742014-07-21T18:32:26.100+03:002014-07-21T18:32:26.100+03:00The recent letter from Rabbi Yair Hoffman totally ...The recent letter from Rabbi Yair Hoffman totally confirms the understanding that Frum Follies has been presenting - based on his conversation with a member of the Chicago Beis Din.. There is a conflict between the understanding of what needs to be done. The Chicago Beis Din is not satisfied that enough has been to safeguard the students while the Israeli beis din thinks it is enough to remove Meisels from an official status in the seminaries.<br /><br />Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61788468045513070932014-07-21T18:23:59.542+03:002014-07-21T18:23:59.542+03:00It is outrageous that you are putting words into t...It is outrageous that you are putting words into the mouth of the Shafran Beit Din. You are falsifying their text to claim they kashered him. Otherwise, how can I be accusing them of "giving a ruling without due process."<br /><br />But the Shafran never claimed to have investigated the sexual misconduct of Meisels. They assume he is gone so the problem is over. That is not a violation of due process, that is a myopic judgement call about scope. <br /><br />Even the sharpest and fairest eye fails when it looks in the wrong direction.Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22908842989212250732014-07-21T18:19:34.912+03:002014-07-21T18:19:34.912+03:00He hosted an event acknowledging that such orienta...He hosted an event acknowledging that such orientations existed (and he also believes the earth revolves around the sun). He did not for a single moment advocate any abrogation or reinterpretation and the halacha which governs acts, not sexual orientations. In introducing the event he made it clear that there was no allowance in the discussion for any attempts to alter halacha in this area.<br /><br />Thus this issue is irrelevant to the discussion about Meisels. <br /><br />For an American Beis Din to say another "assumed responsibility" is neither to say the American's passed it over or to agree that their decisions are correct. Moreover, the Israelis are free to make arrangements and the Americans to recommend whether or not to attend.<br /><br />The Chicago Beis Din is clear in response to private inquiries about the gravity of Meisels' sexual offenses and the extent. But they are not interested in satisfying your voyeurism or your hocking. They satisfied themselves with indicating the basis of their psak. Translation, (since, while you can read, you have trouble with inferences): based on our investigation of these allegations we rule not to send your daughters to his seminaries. <br /><br />They assumed thoughtful readers. If they assumed more readers like you they might have given out details that would make an x-rating censor blush.Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29470218367108996172014-07-21T03:06:25.791+03:002014-07-21T03:06:25.791+03:00"Meisels says he will not teach in the semina..."Meisels says he will not teach in the seminaries this coming year..."<br /><br />But maybe the year after? He didn't say anything about staying away from young girls, from education in general, either.<br /><br /><br /><br />Magia li. Big time. Rachmanut, baishanut, gemilut chassadim? Not so much.ontheleftcoastnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74332587994315398252014-07-20T23:34:09.966+03:002014-07-20T23:34:09.966+03:00I see. So is it too much to ask from him to show r...I see. So is it too much to ask from him to show reading comprehension?keepthebullnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-4476648105162282842014-07-20T19:25:08.404+03:002014-07-20T19:25:08.404+03:00Rabbi Blau, the mashgiach ruchni was the moderator...Rabbi Blau, the mashgiach ruchni was the moderator for a forum accepting and understanding homosexuals in Frum community.<br /><br />He drew strong criticism from Rabbi Hershel Schachter and the other Roshei Yeshiva at YU. <br /><br />http://www.vosizneias.com/45575/2009/12/25/new-york-city-yeshiva-university-panel-about-homosexuality-draws-hundreds/<br /><br />http://thejewishstar.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/coming-out-of-the-closet-in-yeshiva-university/<br /><br />http://matzav.com/yu-rabbeim-blast-toeivah-event-held-at-the-school<br /><br /><br /><br />Its befitting for him to get involved in matters of sexual impropriety.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22166392497905423332014-07-20T17:04:08.668+03:002014-07-20T17:04:08.668+03:00Can this person that portrays to be the Mashgiach ...Can this person that portrays to be the Mashgiach of RIETS please explain to us paragraph (ג) of the Israel BD letter?<br /><br />And while he is at it expand on what the Chicago BD means when it states that the Israel BD 'Has assumed responsibility for this matter'?<br /><br />Can he please?<br /><br />As far as the word 'allegations' google comes with this: <br />'a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.'<br /><br />No need to explain what THAT part of the now famous Chicago letter means.ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-88795241405988923072014-07-20T16:42:23.227+03:002014-07-20T16:42:23.227+03:00Just to update readers, there have been several ne...Just to update readers, there have been several newer posts about the <br />situation. To be absolutely clear, Meisels says he will not teach in the<br /> seminaries this coming year but he still owns them and other enabling <br />staff have not been removed, or even, to the best of my knowledge <br />reprimanded. That is why the Chicago Beis Din stands by its psak <br />advising against sending students to those seminaries. Hebrew <br />Theological College (HTC) and Touro College have suspended <br />accreditation, pending a more substantial set of changes, thereby <br />preventing students from getting US Government assistance with grants <br />and loans.<br /><br />Several newer posts on Frum Follies about meisels can be found with the search URL: http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/?s=Elimelech+Meisels<br /><br />Rabbi<br /> Yosef Blau, Mashgiach Ruchani of YU's RIETS wrote a comment to my most <br />recent post worth passing along to students and alumni of the Meisels <br />seminaries:<br /><br />"This analysis correctly demonstrates that the Israeli Beis Din has no<br />interest in investigating Meisels and interviewing victims to find out<br />the role of others working for him in Pninim and the other seminaries.<br />However there is a great need for the graduates of these programs,<br />whether they were abused, or saw inappropriate behavior, or are<br />convinced that there was no abuse to speak with both therapists and<br />rabbinic figures who understand rabbinic abuse. Many of them are<br />traumatized and are profoundly shaken by these reports about a major<br />influence on their lives. In earlier cases this was at least partially<br />done for young men attending Yeshivot after they had been in an<br />environment where there was a teacher or rabbi who was an abuser. This<br />will be particularly difficult in this case because the women are<br />unlikely to be in educational settings where they can find people who<br />are qualified to meet with them."<br /><br />http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/israeli-beit-dins-problem-isnt-naivete-its-narcissism/#comment-91448Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1040248704694358702014-07-20T16:36:21.130+03:002014-07-20T16:36:21.130+03:00At great inconvenience I actually tolerate enormou...At great inconvenience I actually tolerate enormous amounts of disagreement and even insult in the comments section of my blog, FrumFollies.Wordpress.com. In fact, a perusal of my first post about Meisels has over 500 comments, many of them quite hostile to me, the Chicago "Special Beis Din," and to the victims who testified to the Beis Din. <br /><br />Disagree with me to your heart's content, but please do not claim I "discriminate against anyone who disagrees" with me.<br /><br />If you doubt my assertions about allowing challenging comenters, go to that post and look at the many hostile comments I approved and let through.<br /><br />https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83239930866429095672014-07-20T14:45:59.513+03:002014-07-20T14:45:59.513+03:00may WE know your REAL name please????may WE know your REAL name please????bgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41531276144640109422014-07-20T06:30:43.133+03:002014-07-20T06:30:43.133+03:00So basically you're not only the self proclaim...So basically you're not only the self proclaimed messenger and spokesman of the Chicago Bais Din, but you got your own little investigations going on... your expertise expands into the capacity of the Israel Beis Din as well...fascinating! <br />Do have that analyzed please.ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10055751288333696422014-07-20T06:12:44.633+03:002014-07-20T06:12:44.633+03:00You have proclaimed yourself as the Beis Din assi...You have proclaimed yourself as the Beis Din assistant. Is the Chicago Beis Din really working with you? Was this letter intended to you at all?ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48031086277622286152014-07-20T06:02:28.750+03:002014-07-20T06:02:28.750+03:00The israel Beis Din clearly states on point (ג) Th...The israel Beis Din clearly states on point (ג) That as far as the specifics of the complaint the Beis din will review them and announce its recommendations in a matter of days.<br /><br />You say it does not exonerate him but neither it corroborates the findings of the Chicago Beis Din as some perceive them.<br /><br />Why are so many eager to jump the gun?<br /><br />Is it possible that the Chicago Beis Din is not recommending 'at this time' while the Israel Beis din does it's due diligence? Chicago BS did appoint the Israel BD to 'assume responsibility'.<br /><br />Could it be that this is the 'testimony' it has received from representatives of the seminaries that before registration continues lets clarify the matter?ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-553720360309045732014-07-20T05:42:20.406+03:002014-07-20T05:42:20.406+03:00I have been to your blog, you discriminate anyone...I have been to your blog, you discriminate anyone who disagrees with you. I have experienced first hand how you removed my comments for not singing your praises, while leaving comments that are disrespectful, tasteless, offensive written by bullies that are amongst your groupies as if you would be some sort of a guru on these subject matter.<br /><br />You seem to pick and chose information as is convenient to you, as well as choose which Beis Din is in the right.<br /><br />I personally don't think they disagree at all. And nowhere does it say on any letter from the Batei Dinim that they do.<br /><br />Except of course you have 'information' from 'people close to the Beis Din' that keep you in their circles. Sounds like charlatans talk.ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37109122953684098272014-07-17T07:24:39.541+03:002014-07-17T07:24:39.541+03:00It is outrageous that you attempt to claim you are...It is outrageous that you attempt to claim you are a better judge than the Israeli Beit Din. <br /><br />It is outrageous for you to claim that the Israeli Beit Din gave a ruling without due process.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48325970752862637552014-07-17T07:15:03.875+03:002014-07-17T07:15:03.875+03:00Based upon what I learned he is like the Sdei Chem...Based upon what I learned he is like the Sdei Chemed. He was framed. Some people were hired to testify against him. He is a lamed vov tzadik, the best human being to have ever graced the Planet Earth.<br /><br />See, as an anonymous person, I can claim whatever I'd like to - since I don't take any responsibility over what I claim. It doesn't necessarily mean its true. <br /><br />Do you have any specific stories? (Leave out names)<br /><br />You see, the same pitfall that Meiseles and others face, is a pitfall you yourself face. When you start getting thousands and thousands of hits on your website, per day, it can get to your head. You obtained a sense of power - omnipotence and inviolability - and a feeling that rules of accuracy doesn't apply to you. The juicier the story, the more hits you get, the more powerful you feel. Even trying to degrade Rabbi Moshe Feinstein can become fair game.<br /><br /><br /><br />You feel untouchable, as long as your juicy stories get lots of hits, and as long as you're anonymous. <br /><br /><br />It's a vicious cycle. Read up about King Yayhu.Honestynoreply@blogger.com