tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post6019919879022963057..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Halachic justification for Kolko's defendersDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38543556043787880142013-07-28T17:26:29.744+03:002013-07-28T17:26:29.744+03:00What planet do you live on? Are you the husband w...What planet do you live on? Are you the husband who yells (and then hits, and then rapes his wife) or is he one of your friends?<br /><br />You imply that the man in this case was "provoked" because he was slapped. The man himself could have gone to the police or to his rabbi or even out the door at that moment rather than hitting back. Are you telling me that this Jew, who can keep shabbos, keep kashrus, dress a certain way, do tefilah b'zman -- this person who can control himself and his desires in every area -- cannot control himself and must hit someone smaller and less powerful than he is?<br /><br />No -- there is no provocation. There are only lies after you are finally caught. Men who cannot control their anger are always blaming the world (including their wives and children) for provocations. There was no slap. There is just the anger inside this kind of man, waiting for any chance to be released. There is no seduction for pedophiles. There are only desires they cannot admit and take responsibility for.<br /><br />They were provoked, it was not their fault, they had no choice, it's all because of the feminists. Sure, keep going. We've heard every excuse in the book. <br /><br />People who commit domestic violence and sexual abuse are ill and they are a danger to themselves and to their communities. Perhaps you know of some man who you think has been accused unfairly or perhaps you just hate women or perhaps you are afraid of the secular world.<br /><br />Regardless, you have no idea what you are talking about. Those who work on domestic violence hear the same stories day in and day out while each person who is victimized thinks she or he is completely alone in the world. The lies you describe above is not so special or unique. The people who do this work hear those same lies day in and day out. Yours is not even creative.<br /><br />Those who hear these terrible stories every day do not laugh or count their money when they manage to put someone in jail or get an order of protection.<br /><br />They go home every night and cry out to G-d to give them the strength to continue to fight this kind of evil in the world without giving in to despair. <br /><br />If this story is about someone you know, consider the company you keep. If it's about you, get help. <br />SDKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85662743545083303932013-07-09T19:38:52.187+03:002013-07-09T19:38:52.187+03:00You can run, but you cannot hide. Houston, they...You can run, but you cannot hide. Houston, they've got a problem. The same problems prevail in the four corners of the earth, misof haolam ad sofo. From all the way in Berland, to England, to Ossieland, to Williland, to Jewland, to Lakeland, we our yet not out of the woods, just to mention a few. These Protectors and Enablers have cornered themselves between a rock and a hardplace and left no wiggle room to lie anymore. Claims such as the sardine swallowed the Livyasan and the bird swallowed the Bull, is nothing other then Bull..., it is insulting our intelligence. Sell your story to the Birds. It is so hard to be modeh al haEmes, why not just imagine all the pain you caused the children and their parents. Haven't you seen all these years why these Nifgoiim went of the derech, resorted to drugs, threw themselves out of the windows in your Yeshivas, out of Hotels, under trains or buses. It was because of the pain that was indurable, kaved minsso. When did you hear that a pedophile did such to end his pain. Al ken no Shimi no Raboisai, it time to resign. You have been poshea in the Pikadon, our precious children just because you can and out of convenience. See how this weeks Haftorah describes the situation we are up to our eyeballs. Have you no shame, have you no decency? There are no words to describe. Not even the devil invented such tragedies upon children. Chizri bachem beod moed lishbor bachuray.Aleh nidafnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58137384779380615292013-07-09T17:21:47.359+03:002013-07-09T17:21:47.359+03:00I think it's fascinating that the same people ...I think it's fascinating that the same people who are so worried about the sight of women that they dress them in burkas and make them sit on the back of the bus will find any excuse they can to support a man-on-boy pedophile.Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82166617919195817082013-07-09T15:56:20.812+03:002013-07-09T15:56:20.812+03:00@DaasTorah - "an individual can call the poli...@DaasTorah - "an individual can call the police for financial or physical harm. Moser is understood as being only if it is a willful act to hurt another."<br /><br />Your very broad, non-specific statements here can easily open the door to real MESIRAH, one of the worst crimes in Judaism. <br /><br />Financial harm? No Bais Din needed? Where does the Rambam say one can MOSER a Jew for financial reasons, without first going to Bais Din?<br /><br />Physical harm? Does this include a Jewish wife (advised by feminist groups on how to destroy her husband) who "feels" that her husband is angry or wants to harm her, or whose husband shouted at her, when in fact he would never commit violence against her?<br /><br />Physical harm? Does this mean that when a Jewish wife (who met a cute boyfriend and wants to dump her husband) is advised by the local feminist group to slap her husband, and when he slaps her back, she can now throw him out of the house with an Order of Protection, prevent him from having contact with his children (because he's a "danger"), and claim "agunah" status in the Jewish Press? (Then the local feminist "rabbi" will halachically justify everything she does and condemn the husband.)<br /><br />Even if a Jewish spouse had some weak halachic grounds to call the police on their spouse, if the "victim" now hires a shark lawyer and files any exaggerated or non-factual claims against their spouse in court, are you saying this is not MESIRAH?<br /><br />(NOTE: My comments here refer to disputes between adult Jews (such as spouses) and NOT to molestation or sexual abuse cases.)EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67942393481281556152013-07-09T07:02:59.317+03:002013-07-09T07:02:59.317+03:00Elliot,
The Mishneh in Pirkei Avoth says clearly t...Elliot,<br />The Mishneh in Pirkei Avoth says clearly that anyone who learns and does not earn will end in waste and sin. The Zohar Chodosh in Beraishis says that such a person is like a pagan. I learned in Lakewood during the time of Reb Aharon Kotler. Those who learned there at that time did so with a blind faith that included realizing that one may never find a good wife. In those days things were very bleak. So people, so it is hinted in the Zohar, who are willing to give up everything for Torah, may learn and not earn. But the ones who want both worlds must work. Vollozner Yeshiva and other Yeshivas featured starvation diets and people marrying very late if at all. That is mesiras nefesh but other people have to work.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22179980918562050562013-07-09T06:55:18.167+03:002013-07-09T06:55:18.167+03:00Is eating truly "secular"? Prayer is onl...Is eating truly "secular"? Prayer is only dirabonon and Benshing after meals is a Diorayso. We learn on a table, but when we eat "this is the table before HaShem." And what is family if not the highest holiness? And children, etc. And earning a living with its great temptations and great challenges, is there a greater test? HaShem made a world with spiritual and material parts, but all of it is connected to heaven, if we do it right.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65172325607032614652013-07-09T06:52:14.331+03:002013-07-09T06:52:14.331+03:00Ben Waxman,
Do we have to admit that we have no re...Ben Waxman,<br />Do we have to admit that we have no resources as the state does, that we have no jails, etc.? And if we did have jails, what authority do we have to use them? Obviously, we are quite limited.<br />Then we have issues such as when a person is put in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, and nobody cares. That is something we can do something about. To care. If we really cared, we would do something.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22585694004295850902013-07-09T00:26:56.357+03:002013-07-09T00:26:56.357+03:00This is a good approach I hear from R' Dovid. ...This is a good approach I hear from R' Dovid. <br />Ultimately, everything we encounter during our 6 days of melacha is secular, whether it is work, business, driving kids to school, or having to defend ourselves from threats out there. It is impossible to hide in an Ivory tower , away from these tings. Even in the Midbar, where we had Man from heaven on a daily basis, there was politics, Korach, Bilam, etc. So isolation from the secular is impossible.Ben MIkrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122937371918515052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-103815378931794442013-07-08T21:52:37.139+03:002013-07-08T21:52:37.139+03:00I think it is much worse to label Rabbis stupid, t...I think it is much worse to label Rabbis stupid, than impartial evil, for evil could repent, & explain why they felt they had to protect their institutions against individuals. Whereas if they are stupid, repenting won't help, they will remain stupid. Stupid leadership is more dangerous than evil.Rabbinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85664998578817589802013-07-08T20:37:10.167+03:002013-07-08T20:37:10.167+03:00I am talking about the fact that we are not equipp...<i>I am talking about the fact that we are not equipped to deal with these situations, at least, that is what some people told me. The state has paid people, jails, etc., but what does the Torah community have? </i><br /><br />first thing to do is admit that this is the situation. after that, it will possible to start working on how to alleviate the problem.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64611163822996668092013-07-08T20:23:19.326+03:002013-07-08T20:23:19.326+03:00@ KRUM IZA
"Kolko is a nebach but he is not ...@ KRUM IZA<br /><br />"Kolko is a nebach but he is not a pedophile (i.e., he doesn't have a sexual desire for children) and he definitely is not a rodef."<br /><br /> Im ken, the kushyo is even bigger. How in the world can an 11 year old seduce a 30 year old beheimeh, let alone if he is NOT a pedophile, such for a straight is ===> DOCHE, you do not get seduced for something that is not your cup of tea, and I do not mean tea. Furthermore, hadra kushye leduchtei, if he IS a pedophile then how do you turn tables, RODEF LENIRDAF veNIRDAF LERODEF, huh? VeHitzdik es haROSHO veHIRSHIA es haTZADIK?<br /><br />All those rayas you bring are: <br />1) Straights,<br />2) Adults,<br />3) nohagu bah minhag hefker of which is the perpetrators fault.<br /><br />Domiyo "LEONSIN" is in reference of being a chetzya SHIFCHA vechtzya bat chorin ONLY of which is not known or suspected for those that are minhagu bah minhag hefker therefore only legabei isssur Shifcha is he an ONESS, hevanta. The issur of znus in and of itself, of which IS known to the perpetrators of minhagu bah minhag hefker, they are indeed very much culpable. It is thus, why they urged him to be her meshachrer. My dear friend, the meaning of the word onsin is not in the CONTEXT of being MEFUTEH, as in ME'ANESS, Kappish. OK, so now that we that out of the way, <br />NOW WHAT, HUH?"Kolko is a nebach but he is not a pedophile (i.e., he doesn't have a sexual desire for children) and he definitely is not a rodef."<br /><br /> Im ken, the kushyo is even bigger. How in the world can an 11 year old seduce a 30 year old beheimeh, let alone if he is NOT a pedophile, such for a straight is ===> DOCHE, you do not get seduced for something that is not your cup of tea, and I do not mean tea. Furthermore, hadra kushye leduchtei, if he IS a pedophile then how do you turn tables, RODEF LENIRDAF veNIRDAF LERODEF, huh? VeHitzdik es haROSHO veHIRSHIA es haTZADIK?<br /><br />All those rayas you bring are: <br />1) Straights,<br />2) Adults,<br />3) nohagu bah minhag hefker of which is the perpetrators fault.<br /><br />Domiyo "LEONSIN" is in reference of being a chetzya SHIFCHA vechtzya bat chorin ONLY of which is not known or suspected for those that are minhagu bah minhag hefker therefore only legabei isssur Shifcha is he an ONESS, hevanta. The issur of znus in and of itself, of which IS known to the perpetrators of minhagu bah minhag hefker, they are indeed very much culpable. It is thus, why they urged him to be her meshachrer. My dear friend, the meaning of the word onsin is not in the CONTEXT of being MEFUTEH, as in ME'ANESS, Kappish. OK, so now that we that out of the way, <br />NOW WHAT, HUH?STARIGHT IZAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86520275044957474092013-07-08T18:20:54.691+03:002013-07-08T18:20:54.691+03:00I really don't think its fair to post this vie...I really don't think its fair to post this view in the name of "Lakewood Rabbonim" unless you know for certain that this is the view of THE rabbonim that signed the letter. Otherwise it is just throwing out a theory that was presented by people who have no true relevance to this case (they just happen to be rabbonim living in Lakewood).<br />If you want to find a limud zechus - it is much more plausible that they hold like the Ztitz Eliezer and not like R Elyashiv (maybe they were not even aware that this was his view)and as long as there was no penetration its equivalent to the ZE's case of young girls etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69692944135135338772013-07-08T17:48:08.600+03:002013-07-08T17:48:08.600+03:00One Purim, with the help of a beautiful, clear rea...One Purim, with the help of a beautiful, clear reading, I got completely caught up in the Megillah as pure narrative. From that standpoint, Achashverosh at first looked like a stupid jerk. גראב און זשלאָב, maybe but you could laugh at him.<br /><br />On the surface, anyway. If you can put out of your mind that it was the kelim from the Beit HaMikdash, there's not that moment when the bottom drops out and it's sickening. But then the story of the banquet goes on, the king is drunk, wants his wife to put on a strip show for his drinking buddies (OK, I'm cheating here, it's not explicit in the text,) character revealed as complete trash. It almost seemed sort of funny again.<br /><br />Then as the story unfolds some more, we see that he wasn't funny at all; he was extremely dangerous. Stupid, maybe. Jerk, maybe. Certainly easy for a wicked man to manipulate. Also in a position of power, in which his every word was given total deference. But he made his choice of who to listen to, and picked Haman. And at the end of the day, we refer to Achashverosh as a rasha too.<br />Yoel Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84602067212420115542013-07-08T16:29:47.941+03:002013-07-08T16:29:47.941+03:00"Kolko is a nebach but he is not a pedophile ..."Kolko is a nebach but he is not a pedophile (i.e., he doesn't have a sexual desire for children)" <br /><br />The Lakewood rabbis are really saying they do not believe in psychology. Not so surprising, since they believe in Torah l'shmah above all else. <br /><br />And that is the fatal flaw in their thinking. Since he is not a pedophile, and lacks that deviant yatzer hara, he can be managed within the religious community. He is not at risk, or at tiny risk only below halachic parameters, for re-offending. He need not be isolated in prison for years. He can be found a wife, a chavrusa, a steady job, and managed, and the community will remain safe.<br /><br />This is the same mistake that has been made for years, with disastrous results. The rabbis, thinking they know better than all, believing in their own Daas Torah, keep repeating the same error. This flawed thinking also denies justice to the victims.<br /><br />Interesting quote from Rav Wasserman. Rabbi Gil Student credits Rav Ahron Kotler, or Rav Itzele Voloziner. http://torahmusings.com/2008/09/relying-on-heaven/Elliot Pasiknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25875920567157896552013-07-08T15:58:31.371+03:002013-07-08T15:58:31.371+03:00"Korossi V'ein Oyne" You described ... "Korossi V'ein Oyne" You described the matzav perfectly . I would just add to these Rabbanim that don't you realize that you are standing in Shaul Tachtis and are already in Pischei Gehinnom !!!<br /> Do a real Teshuva fast before its to late !!!avfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18103369853530864172013-07-08T15:38:03.309+03:002013-07-08T15:38:03.309+03:00HELP WANTED
6th grade Rebbe and camp counselor
U...HELP WANTED<br /><br />6th grade Rebbe and camp counselor<br /><br />Unmarried and capable of being seduced by 11 years olds, okay<br /><br />haskomos from Rabbonim a must<br /><br /><br />-ben dovAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71983758398903999912013-07-08T15:11:58.406+03:002013-07-08T15:11:58.406+03:00If the theory proposed in this posting is true, th...If the theory proposed in this posting is true, that would take these Rabbonim out of the category of evil, and place them in the category of stupid. Not sure which one is worse.Henochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60406900768131757532013-07-08T14:55:06.650+03:002013-07-08T14:55:06.650+03:00There is an updated version on frum follies. http:...There is an updated version on frum follies. http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/how-the-rabbis-in-chelm-solved-the-problem-of-the-stolen-money/Yerachmiel Lopinhttp://frumfollies.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50050086572385454052013-07-08T08:54:17.365+03:002013-07-08T08:54:17.365+03:00Job well done, sir.Job well done, sir.Student Vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58092696700399954642013-07-08T08:33:48.398+03:002013-07-08T08:33:48.398+03:00LOVE IT. You have not lost your touch, Yerachmiel...LOVE IT. You have not lost your touch, Yerachmiel Lopin!AndyBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656843337456348270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-13542178384545207982013-07-08T07:43:03.155+03:002013-07-08T07:43:03.155+03:00Reb Yerachmiel this piece is utter brilliance!!!
Y...Reb Yerachmiel this piece is utter brilliance!!!<br />Yes yes I live in Chelmwood (or do they call it kelmwood), and "glattkiet" and "klarkiet" like this, are hard to come by.<br />The analogy to the Children's pushkah is particularly powerful. Like a pushkah our kinderlach are precious, reserved for a mitzvah, and R"L one can steal from them!!concernedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00725433166043905160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-44527735705186522962013-07-08T06:35:50.194+03:002013-07-08T06:35:50.194+03:00If you claim that RYB made such a statement, after...If you claim that RYB made such a statement, after claiming he had investigated the matter. Could you please elaborate on how he conducted his investigation.<br />Are you telling us he asked YK what happened & this is how he answered?<br />Did he speak to the kid, father, Physiologists, therapists, other accusers?<br />Are you telling me that if someone's wife would beg RYB to have ... with her & be Oiver Eishes Ich, & because he is so nice & can't turn down such a begging lady, he would not be guilty of aishes Ish?<br />Thank you for being don lekaf zechus, but I think your analogy makes a bigger mockery of RYB, than accepting that is impartial {nogei bedover} seeing that YK is a talmid & musmach of his, that has blinded him & caused him to err, unfortunately at the expense of others. It may be time for him to take a shiur in resignation, because of mess-ups from R'Norman Lamm.<br />He is a massive Talmid chochem, but even on Moshe Rabeinu it says Vatechasreyhu meat Meloikim, meaning he too was not perfect. This may be RYB"S weak point, but the stuff you post, unless you saw it signed by him or heard it from his mouth just doesn't add up.<br />I am prepared to bet that BOTH RYB & RAMK had the image of their Yeshivos Uber Alles. We don't have such nisyoinos so we can't judge them, but they are not stupid. Yesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38143045023857070662013-07-08T04:12:52.776+03:002013-07-08T04:12:52.776+03:00Sources that sin (and by extension rape?) is the s...Sources that sin (and by extension rape?) is the seductive (/looking for trouble) subject/victim's fault, not the committer/offender's:<br /><br />וגבי חציה שפחה וחציה בת חורין שנהגו בה מנהג הפקר וכפו את רבה ב'השולח', משום שהיתה מחזרת וממציאה עצמה לזנות ודומי' לאנוסין<br />--תוס' שבת ד:א<br /><br />והא דשרי בחציה שפחה וחציה בת חורין לשחררה כשנהגו בה מנהג הפקר אע"ג שעובר בעשה, לא דמי פריצות דידהו ל...אותו [ש]לא היה אנוס כלל, אבל שפחה האסורה לעבדים ולבני חורין והיא להוטה אחר זנות אי אפשר שלא תכשיל בני אדם ודמו לאונסין<br />--תוס' עירובין לב:ב<br /><br />וחציה שפחה וחציה בת חורין דכפו את רבה משום דנהגו בה מנהג הפקר אע"ג דהם פושעים, כיון שהיתה מחזרת אחריהם ומשדלתן לזנות חשיבי כאונסים<br />--תוס' גיטין מא:בKurmizanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64770676950566718052013-07-08T03:28:17.994+03:002013-07-08T03:28:17.994+03:00For those that indulge with consent and consult, y...For those that indulge with consent and consult, yelamdenu rabeinu, till what age down can you consider consent? These consulting rapists go down as far as toddlers--. This is sick and getting sicker. When you start out with lies, you need to keep up with thousands of other ones to cover up. So now you know why Internet is banned. How about an asifa for the sake of our children, or are they matir daman behefker beis din hefker.Fed upnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-53863316730413342152013-07-08T02:43:03.814+03:002013-07-08T02:43:03.814+03:00First of all, Reb Elchonon was talking about thing...First of all, Reb Elchonon was talking about things that the Torah requires of us, such as good family life. He was not talking about how much effort we invest in secular or material matters. But working and making a living are very important. The gemora says in Berochose 8A says, "Greater is one who toils with his hands than the one who fears HaShem." We also have a gemora in Pesachim 118A that "harder is parnoso earning a living than the Redemnption" because an angel can bring the Redemption but HaShem must provide parnoso." Anyone who encourages people not to work is not doing the right thing. There is a long Zohar Chodosh in Beraishis showing how important working and making a living is. One who learns and does not earn is called a pagan.<br />Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.comnoreply@blogger.com