tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post5770548918603550051..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: The Orthodox Sex Guru's crusade for the acceptance of pleasureDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-33033158557748882892015-01-27T17:30:55.750+02:002015-01-27T17:30:55.750+02:00"Clothing permitted/preferred
Vayikra Rabbah[..."Clothing permitted/preferred<br />Vayikra Rabbah[1](21:8):<br />R. Simeon b. Yohai said: There are four things which the Holy One, blessed be He, hates, and I too dislike them: The act of one who holds the membrum virile when urinating, of one who performs the marital duty naked. . . "<br /><br />At least with regards to this source, I am pretty sure that the act of "Meshamesh mitaso arum" refers to doing the act without being covered by a sheet or a blanket, but not that they should be clothed.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21754973803887722482015-01-27T14:19:38.494+02:002015-01-27T14:19:38.494+02:00So maybe it was a fluke occurrence. I would be hap...So maybe it was a fluke occurrence. I would be happy to hear that the reality is otherwise. <br /><br />This should not distract, however, from the point being made throughout this discussion, which is that there do exist people who believe that it is hashkafically warranted to maintain a level of prudishness with regards to marital intimacy, and that in today's day and age, this outlook is irrelevant at best and destructive at worst. I hope that this is something that we can all agree upon. <br /><br />It also happens to be that this outlook does happen to be more widespread among certain sectors of our society, where it is mistakenly assumed to be frumkeit. Without naming names, I hope that we can agree upon this as well. And I am not excluding the litvishe yeshivishe world from this, although they have become concerned with the recent spike in the divorce rate and have therefore been more proactive in their efforts to correct this problem. Let's just say that as of seven or ten years ago, it was prevalent everywhere, and let's hope that it will keep getting better.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70327168930752091052015-01-27T13:45:49.024+02:002015-01-27T13:45:49.024+02:00http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/01/ywn-posts-se...http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/01/ywn-posts-seriously-flawed-translation.html#comment-1816333378<br /><br /><br /><br />Your implication is that 1) a Satmer Rov has relations with clothing and 2) he teaches others to do it this way. Kindly provide his name.<br /><br /><br />Until you provide his name, it is unfathomable that this is taught in Satmer. And i definitely doesn't make it the truth. Satmer encourages their chassidim to become knowledgeable of the halacha themselves as well. Is it possible that there was one flukey chosson teacher out there? Certainly. To taint Satmer this way is simple foolishness.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50983325080837214982015-01-27T04:16:06.448+02:002015-01-27T04:16:06.448+02:00Baloney, yourself. What's your problem--you ca...Baloney, yourself. What's your problem--you can't deal with the truth? I am telling you a first-hand story of something that I heard from a reliable person with my own two ears. If you think that I am lying, go ahead and call me a liar and don't believe me, but you have no justification to call me a k'sil. And just be aware that you might be sticking your head in the sand.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29270085972312099332015-01-26T21:08:45.325+02:002015-01-26T21:08:45.325+02:00Nat,
I am a mechuton of the Gaon Reb Meir Bransdor...Nat,<br />I am a mechuton of the Gaon Reb Meir Bransdorfer zt"l and I had a very long talk with him about these things at my son's chasuna. I was completely against perushise today. I asked him, "Tell me if there is one half of a yunger man out of a thousand who doesn't look at women." He smiled. At the end of this, I told him it was almost Shabbos and I had to stop taking his valuable time. He was very warm as he walked me to the door and said, "You have the sources but..." The "but" I will leave you in suspense. But it is nothing that I basically disagree with. Rabbi Bransdorfer grew up while Hitler was slaughtering Jews and if he decided to be super holy I will assume that his people are those who qualify for the kedusho that he seeks. But people born today should be perushim? One condition. Such a person should never walk down the street and surely, cholila vichas, never, ever attend a chasuna. Reb Aharon Kotler walked past ferocious killer dogs rather than walk down a regular city street. He once took some students along and told them to hang on to his coat. The dogs didn't bother them. Yes, some people are ready for what some people are not ready. I have a post about this on my blogspot www.torahhalacha.blogspot.com . If anyone wants to talk to me about these matters my number is 845-578-1917. A Chosid once told me that he spoke to many rabbis and until he spoke to me he never understood what marriage was all about.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://torahtimes.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82442886819253881142015-01-26T18:27:03.923+02:002015-01-26T18:27:03.923+02:00Sheker! There is not a not a single chassidishe ch...Sheker! There is not a not a single chassidishe chosson or kallah teacher that teaches healthy people to do this.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71494585556353952822015-01-26T18:25:22.335+02:002015-01-26T18:25:22.335+02:00Baloney!Baloney!Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-54858964740393010012015-01-26T18:24:55.639+02:002015-01-26T18:24:55.639+02:00עֲנֵה כְסִיל כְּאִוַּלְתּוֹ, פֶּן יִהְיֶה חָכָם בְ...עֲנֵה כְסִיל כְּאִוַּלְתּוֹ, פֶּן יִהְיֶה חָכָם בְּעֵינָיוHonestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-54580394263967972802015-01-26T17:56:31.400+02:002015-01-26T17:56:31.400+02:00Interesting. I knew they were into certain fetishe...Interesting. I knew they were into certain fetishes.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-80560263526143694732015-01-26T17:54:32.526+02:002015-01-26T17:54:32.526+02:00Take it or leave it.Take it or leave it.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81708866581558018932015-01-26T13:48:09.035+02:002015-01-26T13:48:09.035+02:00I had a MO chavrusa who later became a rabbi that ...I had a MO chavrusa who later became a rabbi that told me that the he was taught to do it wearing gloves. Shoin, Now we know the mo do it wearing gloves.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48322178877675177762015-01-26T13:41:00.898+02:002015-01-26T13:41:00.898+02:00That's what is called a bubbe maisa.That's what is called a bubbe maisa.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-28643080046295727142015-01-26T06:11:07.262+02:002015-01-26T06:11:07.262+02:00Yes, infidelities. I heard a good few years ago th...Yes, infidelities. I heard a good few years ago that R' Meir Bransdorfer Zt"l made an emergency call to Rebbitzen Tehilla Abramov to get involved with Shalom Bayis/intimacy in his community, because, as he put it, "we are full of mamzerim."Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76443151226343436752015-01-26T05:46:05.318+02:002015-01-26T05:46:05.318+02:00I didn't exaggerate anything. I said there was...I didn't exaggerate anything. I said there was infidelity. There is. I didn't say it's rampant (in fact, I b"H don't have any personal acquaintances who I believe to have done anything like that). I even said it's probably not the biggest issue. I was clear that even people who don't step out of marriage, can have bad relationships with their spouses because of bad sex lives. That's not me talking. That's therapists in the frum community along with one of the previous generation's most well-known and respected kosvei gittin.<br />And as I have stated, I don't think any of the issues I spoke of are grounds for listening to Marcus's "cure" for them. The idea of couples reading soft porn is particularly disturbing to me. But let's not ignore the fact that some people (again, SOME people) are given a wrong view of a proper sexual relationship with one's spouse.AndJewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11769494202210590142015-01-26T05:36:21.993+02:002015-01-26T05:36:21.993+02:00I'm not going to give any names. It's fine...I'm not going to give any names. It's fine if you don't want to believe me. <br />In addition, divorce rate is not a fully reliable indicator of healthy marriage. MO might be more willing to get divorced (maybe even way too quickly, before they have even tried to work on things) than chassidim. There might be other mitigating factors. I do think the chassidish community is doing a lot RIGHT. I think the chassidish community at large is likely being taught about how to have a healthy sex life. I agree that the MO way is not the right way. I don't even think this is a chassidish vs. yeshivish or litvish thing. I am sure many yeshivish people are not being taught properly. I am saying that telling couples to remain dressed during relations as Marcus suggests she has been told by some chassidish women (although I think it might have been in a different article), is not halachically acceptable and is not healthy. For a woman to feel that she has no sexual pleasure is not healthy. Again, This is why we have halacha telling us what we can and can't do. Takanos on top of halacha should be used in light of current realities al pi d"t. But there has to be good education or we are risking shalom bayis.AndJewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49495311738344208462015-01-26T05:27:37.458+02:002015-01-26T05:27:37.458+02:00I had a Satmar Chavrusa who later became a Rov who...I had a Satmar Chavrusa who later became a Rov who told me that he WAS taught to do it with clothing.Natnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50744649229191717952015-01-26T03:24:00.279+02:002015-01-26T03:24:00.279+02:00These things should never make it to the NYTimes. ...These things should never make it to the NYTimes. The overwhelming comments there were hostile to Judaism. Not everything has to be publicized. <br /><br />About Gerrers. Does anyone know if they have more sholom bayis problems than others?Humble Jewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-68794871646504796232015-01-26T03:06:47.431+02:002015-01-26T03:06:47.431+02:00There is the famous story of rav moshe bick tellin...There is the famous story of rav moshe bick telling the satmar rebbe z"l that we(chassidim) should require a couple to date a few times before marriage. Rav yoel was against it. Ra v bick responded, "kevod satmar rebbe does chuppah veKiddushin. I write the gittin. I know what's going on."MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43727066549179056822015-01-26T02:44:28.895+02:002015-01-26T02:44:28.895+02:00Yes, I misunderstood. I thought the point was chas...Yes, I misunderstood. I thought the point was chasidim are taught *not* to do it with clothing, and I was adding yeshivish guys are also told it's assur to do it with clothing. I see the point was they're taught *to* do it with clothing. That I've never heard and it certainly isn't something the vast majority of chasidim are taught.Moe Ginsburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-66083509258594470942015-01-26T01:11:41.783+02:002015-01-26T01:11:41.783+02:00Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. I unde...Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. I understand you to be saying that a yeshivishe choson shmuess tells young men to remain clothed during relations. If that's what you're saying, I strenuously disagree.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11125549935698968692015-01-26T01:10:00.904+02:002015-01-26T01:10:00.904+02:00No one argues that a healthy sex life is important...No one argues that a healthy sex life is important to a marriage. That does not include the prescriptions of someone who holds that normative halacha is a step too far. Read what the article says about Mrs. Marcus's view of harchakos of niddah. She trembles at the edge of explicit kefirah, but opts to cry instead.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60383998942980701952015-01-26T00:16:02.635+02:002015-01-26T00:16:02.635+02:00Dear AndJew,
Please gives the name of this suppo...Dear AndJew,<br /><br /><br />Please gives the name of this supposed anonymous godol you quote. Based upon your claim, the Chasidsh communityHonestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78902825494996346242015-01-25T23:54:15.769+02:002015-01-25T23:54:15.769+02:00Infidelities in which communities? Stop exaggerati...Infidelities in which communities? Stop exaggerating or projecting one own's insecurities on the community at large. You are imagining something you have no documentation of since none exists and your contention is wholly inaccurate.Moe Ginsburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40899590879676304662015-01-25T23:51:46.860+02:002015-01-25T23:51:46.860+02:00The part about clothing (as well as various other ...The part about clothing (as well as various other similar ideas) most certainly is taught in the yeshivish community chosn shmuezes.Moe Ginsburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-34694151554657757252015-01-25T23:09:04.470+02:002015-01-25T23:09:04.470+02:00Yes, it is.Yes, it is.Natnoreply@blogger.com