tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post5597621180322311684..comments2024-03-19T00:38:47.904+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Weiss Dodelson: Rav Dovid Feinstein pasken's agreement to arbitration means R Avraham Meir Weiss can not be considered a mesarev or me'agenDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46852676803260963772013-11-25T17:09:18.921+02:002013-11-25T17:09:18.921+02:00@Yossie Abramson there are many serious errors in ...@Yossie Abramson there are many serious errors in what you write.<br />1) A civil divorce is meaningless as far as the Torah is concerned. It does not entitle anyone to a get. Only a Bais Din can decide that, and...<br />2)The siruv from Monsey has nothing to do with a get. It only decries him for going to civil court, for which he had recived a heter arka'os (besides all the other problems with the siruv).<br />3)I learn in Yeshiva of Staten Island, who is this Mr. Tropper?<br />4) When was there ever a heter to lie or slander in public to help someone without being involved and getting a psak bais din to do so. (no one who signed the kol koreh spoke to Weiss before signing) Bais din never authorized anything except to stop going to court, which she was guilty of as well.Learning at Yeshiva of Staten Islandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74413843922809394092013-11-14T18:06:55.690+02:002013-11-14T18:06:55.690+02:00Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other...<b>Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other ALL of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Second Bais HaMikdosh was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam ("causeless hatred), and the third Bais HaMikdosh will only be rebuilt by Ahavas Chinom ("selfless love")! You are ALL making yourselves into a laughingstock in full view of the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To the Weisses and Dodelsons STOP IT and tell your warring kids who are fighting each other to grow up and stop acting like BABIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a disgrace.</b>Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82589969647702613902013-11-12T19:34:12.420+02:002013-11-12T19:34:12.420+02:00My understanding of Reb Dovid is he is clarifying ...My understanding of Reb Dovid is he is clarifying that seruv is not reasonable EVEN from the Doddleson position as it seems based on the initial letter from Rabbi GreenWald that they had agreed to arbitration. Now that we know from the clarification of Rabbi GreenWal's second letter that the Doddlesos had NOT agreed to arbitration, it still doesn't matter to the seruv because according to halacha The husband, Rabbi Weiss cannot be a Mesarev Ledin when had always agreed to zabla AND there is another best din being mevatel the first best din's unfounded seruv against him.jwnjcdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17759494982860303582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61533499854699281252013-11-12T16:32:48.165+02:002013-11-12T16:32:48.165+02:00James,
Are you saying that it is perfectly ok for ...James,<br />Are you saying that it is perfectly ok for her to unilaterally relocate the child to her parents' house without his permission? That is exactly what she boasts that she did in the ny post. Parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-54942678418547465972013-11-12T06:34:41.393+02:002013-11-12T06:34:41.393+02:00Except as per Rabbi Greenwald's own words, the...Except as per Rabbi Greenwald's own words, there never was any arbitration -<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=519281931501721&set=a.480394572057124.1073741827.480356772060904&type=1&theaterFree Gitalhttp://www.setgitalfree.com/refuting-the-weiss-statements.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-35350379495304602542013-11-12T05:48:16.640+02:002013-11-12T05:48:16.640+02:00@James - "I dont hold that it is assur to go ...@James - "I dont hold that it is assur to go to US courts" - Since you and your ORA cohorts are so agonized by the "agunot" problem, here's a simple solution: You've ripped out the Choshen Mishpat section of the Torah. Now just rip out the Evan haEzer section of the Torah also, and all your "agunot" will magically disappear! EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71002764771560363402013-11-12T03:25:45.950+02:002013-11-12T03:25:45.950+02:00There is something that I don’t understand over h...There is something that I don’t understand over here. The way that I understand siruv is that it is a punishment if the husband blatantly ignores Beis Din. The issue is that if he gets a psak from a posek and follows it, it should be considered a shogeg even if the posek made a mistake. This is clearly the halacha in O.C. 318 sif aleph in the be’er heiteiv. If so even if there are other poskim who hold that he can’t do what he did but siruv should not be an option.meehoozenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77758670474441580482013-11-12T01:35:51.919+02:002013-11-12T01:35:51.919+02:00Which Morei Horaah? Did they grant him a heter ar...Which Morei Horaah? Did they grant him a heter arkaot? If so, he could have presented that to MAchon LEhoraa. He didnt. He presented a 20 year old note. <br />The practice among Batei din is to allow arkaos in cases in which there will be an irreperable harm or loss to the filing party if they wait or if there is no jurisdiction. Even so, you have to try and take the case to BD at the same time. He could have agreed to a custody agreement engotiated by a BD. He was in court for months before losing and never sent a hazmana. So, yes, it is correct to state that he is "entitled" to go to arkaos but he must also try to go to BD. Couples are allowed to agree to a custody agreement on their own. LAstly, Dodelson filed for divorce after she got a seruv from a recognized BD. That she is definitely allowed to do. The cases are consolidated with Dodelson having claims and Weiss having counterclaims. His current standing as defendent does not mean that he can not withdraw his counterclaims. <br />Who issued the heter arkaos? Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74400144365432144892013-11-12T01:26:21.483+02:002013-11-12T01:26:21.483+02:00James. No you said you dont hold of bais din so wh...James. No you said you dont hold of bais din so why hold of a get? You clearly have never dealt with American divorce lawyers have you? They are what makes the system so corrupt. Your suggestion is a joke. <br /><br />Previously you described machol l'hoyro as a a respected bais din. Now they are incompetent. Frankly you seem seem confused which is okay except you are very strong in your opinions so which way is it?<br /><br />Weiss got a hetter from rabbi wohlhandler. The true halocho is like rav gestetner no matter how much you protest. You have a point about a psak from a single dayan but I am unsure and doubt this gave Dodelson a right to go to arko"oys in regard to all other matters. I agree this case is somewhat murky but the epstein case most certainly is not.<br /><br />Even with a hetter arko'oys one is not allowed to collect more than what tbe halocho grantsanti rabbanutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-4540825531238228662013-11-12T01:04:42.107+02:002013-11-12T01:04:42.107+02:00James I find your comments typically level headed ...James I find your comments typically level headed - even when I disagree with them. In this case I don't understand you at all.<br /><br />According to you there is the congenial relationship that she took the child without his consent but since she was allowing him to see the kid - no major problem.<br /><br />The Weiss's disagree with your understanding of the facts<br /><br />Avrohom Meir’s child was withheld from him in contravention of an explicit prior arrangement. This episode was recorded, and there is even a letter from R’ Malkiel Kotler – a first cousin to theDodelsons – admitting that this occurred.After consulting with Morei Horaah<br />and being issued a written<br />, Avrohom Meir went to court to enforce his rights vis-à-vis his child, and sought joint legal custody. He had no choice but todo so; in the State of New Jersey this is the only way for a parent to protect his legal rights vis-à-vishis child. Reputable Batei Din fully recognize this as being true.The Dodelsons filed numerous counterclaims. Ultimately, they also filed a completely new suit for divorce. This new suit supplanted all previous filings, and rendered Gital Dodelson the plaintiff andthe only one who could possibly withdraw the complaint; Avrohom Meir was (and still is) only a defendant. Has anyone ever heard of a defendant being able to withdraw a complaint?Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56592803830427058002013-11-12T00:06:25.303+02:002013-11-12T00:06:25.303+02:00RDE,
C'mon. I didnt say the "kidnapping&q...RDE,<br />C'mon. I didnt say the "kidnapping" was OK. Thats a cheap trick. I said that the marriage was disintegrating. The emails show that there was a relationship between the parties while they were trying to figure out how to proceed. Weiss wanted to try and make things work. dodelson did not. At that point, I might have been sympathetic to Weiss. I say "might" because no one really knows the facts. Maybe he was verbally abusive. Maybe had a false picture of what marraige should be. I dont know. Either way, the emails show that as the marraige was falling apart she continued to allow Weiss to see the child. That is not kidnapping. Everything changed when he went to court. He lost. Why didnt summon her to BD? If he had no time to wait for a hazmana, the "proper" procedure is to file a suit and send her a hazmana at the same time asking to remove the case to BD. He went along with the arkaos the whole time until he lost. Now he wants to go to an arbitrator? Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-4080654657994470452013-11-11T23:56:05.713+02:002013-11-11T23:56:05.713+02:00What does a lack of BD have to do with Shabbos?What does a lack of BD have to do with Shabbos?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29338764825232576532013-11-11T23:55:46.078+02:002013-11-11T23:55:46.078+02:00Which heter and which dayan?
I wouldnt say it is...Which heter and which dayan? <br />I wouldnt say it is muttar to go to arkaos. I said there are no competent BD and I would understand if people go to arkaos. I think binding arbitration by trained jewish attorneys who are well acquainted with the law is ideal and I think the Shulchan Aruch would permit this given the reality.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-6367650116459773052013-11-11T23:48:32.822+02:002013-11-11T23:48:32.822+02:00Violate what custody agreement? The very civil em...Violate what custody agreement? The very civil emails between the Weisses and dodelsons attest to the fact that Weiss was seeing the boy as often as he liked. Everything changed when Weiss went to court. I dont knwo how you could say she violated the custody agreement if there was no custody agreement prior to the court case. Are you saying she is in violation of the court determined custody agreement?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-42443479437303962452013-11-11T21:08:24.146+02:002013-11-11T21:08:24.146+02:00I was at a shiur which hadn't started yet, whe...I was at a shiur which hadn't started yet, when a guy, in the process of a divorce himelf, mentioned the story. My Rov, a Chaim Berliner, also was not aware of the situation. He was first hurt by the chillul Hashem, but said understandably that he feels for this girl who is crying out through so much pain. Calculated or not, she had her back against the wall. After the shiur I googled the story and found it on daattorah...I later found out thatit was in the Post. <br />I just cant wrap my head around how someone as intelligent as yourself-by the way, thank you for the Yad Moshe- I love it!) can believe that it is menchlech for someone who went to court willingly (noone claimed otherwise, thusfar) and didn't get what he wanted, is entitled to extort a get until he gets what he wants. Can he do it? Yes. But I have no doubt that the flames Gei Henom will be waiting, licking its chops in anticipation of his arrival. <br />EMLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03899920219813522485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-4167494077861205272013-11-11T19:00:51.794+02:002013-11-11T19:00:51.794+02:00I do appreciate that you do that. But I take issue...I do appreciate that you do that. But I take issue with your suggestion above that it is Dodelson's supporters who use inflammatory rhetoric ("disgusting things") when it is clearly both sides.<br /><br />"It is interesting and important to note that Gital and her supporters claiming they are arguing in the name of menschlikeit say such disgusting things."Raffihttp://www.frumcounselor.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8653041403082670722013-11-11T18:34:26.888+02:002013-11-11T18:34:26.888+02:00The Weiss documents claim that Dodelson's fath...The Weiss documents claim that Dodelson's father physically threatened weiss when weiss came to pick up the child pursuant to their agreement and that this was captured on tape and the transcript admitted in court. Are you questioning whether this is true? Or is the problem that the Weiss family is too decent to release the transcript and until and unless they do, you will consider them liars, while everything Dodelson or her PR team allege is to be accepted without question?Puzzlednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87865784135982971072013-11-11T18:14:04.461+02:002013-11-11T18:14:04.461+02:00@Raffi - I leave it up to the reader to decide and...@Raffi - I leave it up to the reader to decide and that is why I try to censor as little as possible and to have comments from opposing campsDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-53641504550905823432013-11-11T18:12:35.770+02:002013-11-11T18:12:35.770+02:00James I am glad you think that the documentary evi...James I am glad you think that the documentary evidence that Gital has posted proves her position and disproves that of the Weiss's<br /><br />Creating a paper trail with the guidance of a pr expert is not a big deal. The question is what actually happened and that requires a competent impartial judge listening to both sides. <br /><br />You cite cordial emails to prove that Gital's kidnapping of their child was fine with AM Weiss? Perhaps it simply shows that Weiss is a mensch and didn't think that yelling and screaming through emails served any useful purpose?<br /><br />The same goes for the rest of your "proofs". Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61479814128162417882013-11-11T17:51:27.694+02:002013-11-11T17:51:27.694+02:00Rav Moshe was not against a heter meah rabbonim. I...Rav Moshe was not against a heter meah rabbonim. It was just the use of it for finanical gain which wasn't a factor with Rav KotlerDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-70390947726869052162013-11-11T16:32:18.806+02:002013-11-11T16:32:18.806+02:00James is misrepresentating. He got a hetter from a...James is misrepresentating. He got a hetter from a dayan. As for his claims that it is muttar just to go to arko'oys because everyone is corrupt well then lets just close everything down shabbos kashrus etc.<br /><br />I do find this case a lot more murky than epstein where it is clearcut tamar waljed out of bais din and is not an agunah by any stretch of the imagination. This case should be decided by independent gedolim if they exist in eretz yisroel.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173432911228335919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-86375163553727561812013-11-11T16:22:55.548+02:002013-11-11T16:22:55.548+02:00And you think it is right for Dodelson to unilater...And you think it is right for Dodelson to unilaterally take the child? And you think it s right for Dodelson to violate the custody agreement and refuse to let the child see his father? What was Weiss supposed to do when Dodlson wouldn't let their child see him? Physically grab the child back?<br />Parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78685813885260798532013-11-11T16:10:54.555+02:002013-11-11T16:10:54.555+02:00RDE,
This isnt a "he said - she said" si...RDE,<br />This isnt a "he said - she said" situation. You know my thoughts on the Epstein/Freedman case - this isnt even close to the problems of that case.<br /><br />Here we have the Dodelson's presenting evidence for every one of their claims. Weiss says she abducted the child and didnt let him see his son. Dodelson says otherwise. Except that Dodelsons ALSO provides evidence in the form of emails between the parties to prove that she permitted him to be with his son as often as he wanted. We have emails between the parties showing them to be cordial AFTER she left the house. <br />We have Weiss saying that both parties agreed to Greenwald. The Dodelson's disagree. Except that the Dodelsons ALSO provide evidence in the form of a Greenwald email proving that they did not agree to him as a binding arbitrator.<br />Where is the evidence that she ignored a BD order? The only evidence I see from Weiss is the laughable "heter" from the Debreciner of 20 years ago on a hand written note to someone else.<br />I personally have no faith in the BD system. Thats just me. If you agree - great. But then lets get over the "Tamar went to Arkaos" nonsense or "SO and so is a moredes", "Rav Gestetner ruled" etc. <br />I dont hold that it is assur to go to US courts. You do. I just want an admission that BD is not a viable option and therefore secular court as a first option is muttar because what Weiss did was totally without any halachic justification.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10813003461408791092013-11-11T14:20:16.988+02:002013-11-11T14:20:16.988+02:00@DaasTorah - The Igros Moshe you quoted above is c...@DaasTorah - The Igros Moshe you quoted above is contradictory and may have been doctored by unknown persons:<br /><br />"And in general they did not make a decree which gave the husband the right to demand whatever he wanted" - The implication is clearly that the husband does have a right to demand certain things, which I presume would include rights granted to him by the Torah, such as parenting time with his child and freedom from being mosered and jailed in the feminist police state.<br /><br />"depositing a valid get that she can readily obtain without any impediment." - So according to this tshuvah, if a wife is a moredes (such as Dodelson) abducting the child, litigating as a Plaintiff a full divorce lawsuit in NJ family court, then the moredes can just pick up the GET without withdrawing from court? This clearly violates Choshen Mishpat 26, I don't believe Rav Feinstein meant it this way at all.<br /><br />DaasTorah, are you allowing the feminists to hoodwink you?<br /><br />EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-25186891529808413322013-11-11T13:01:10.083+02:002013-11-11T13:01:10.083+02:00Well... Well..... Did you find the right word rock...Well... Well..... Did you find the right word rockymountainnanach? The words you are looking for ... <br /><br /> תלמידי חכמים <br /><br /><br />Yes Rav Reuvain Feinstien, Rav Yoseif Asher Weiss. These are Talmidei Chachamin who know how to learn very well. Do you think they chose Rav Yoseif Asher Weiss to write the Shas for Artscroll by mistake ? It wasn't because of his traveling to Uman on Rosh Hashana !! He is a real תלמיד חכם, and I would be very careful making disparaging comments about him, or Rav Reuvain Feinstein, or Rav Malkiel Kotler. <br /><br />FYI: Rav Moshe Feinstien was actually mesader kidushin in Rav Malkiel kotlers SECOND marriage.אשר פיהם דבר שואnoreply@blogger.com