tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post4783465364722647961..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: R' M. Feinstein & Maharam Shick:Legitimacy of capital punishmentDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21411354282925034162010-03-05T17:06:13.528+02:002010-03-05T17:06:13.528+02:00See Shut Chasam Sofer 6:14. It clearly states non-...See Shut Chasam Sofer 6:14. It clearly states non-Jewish courts have no right to execute a Jewish person. Period.Shlomo Zalmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12854883031763659377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83180769972350089952010-02-26T12:13:06.070+02:002010-02-26T12:13:06.070+02:00In your article you say "it simply isn't ...In your article you say "it simply isn't so".Please could you back up your statement with halachic sources.The igros moshe and mahram shick aren't connected with that point.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-67010168394617405592010-02-25T12:02:32.696+02:002010-02-25T12:02:32.696+02:00Reb daas torah:if there was already hatred ,that m...Reb daas torah:if there was already hatred ,that means the rabbonim should have been more careful.In that era the antisemetism was boiling high,and information of a ransom deal could have caused a big explosion.On another point, where did anybody say that florida has no right ti invoke capital punishment,Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89824247269001911702010-02-24T13:36:43.206+02:002010-02-24T13:36:43.206+02:00Another point, reb daas torah:you have no proof it...Another point, reb daas torah:you have no proof it was orthodox jews,there were people from liberal groups involved like amnesty internationil and others.As for saying that a nonjewish society has the right to excute someone.The askanim themselves said, we would not be ivolved if it was a regular case,without the special factors involved.See the jerusalem post.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-57344626621680282852010-02-24T13:32:08.075+02:002010-02-24T13:32:08.075+02:001)Please show me a halachic source where there is ...1)Please show me a halachic source where there is a diffrence between one jew and many2)show me one newspaper article that says the govonor was called a nazi.I was ver dissapointed in all your responses,they are evasive in general,and not halachicly backed.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49561962731180022062010-02-24T13:20:58.509+02:002010-02-24T13:20:58.509+02:00DT said: The only real question is if harassment h...DT said: The only real question is if harassment had a reasonable chance of saving him, should they be used even if they would likely cause eivah and chilul hashem. That wasn't the situation and I didn't address the issue. <br />========================<br />That is a change from your earlier comments where you simply said if theres eiva then you can't save someones life.<br /><br />In any event, if doing something that may possibly be eivah has a reasonable chance to save someones life, then there is no question that pikuach nefesh is docha eivah.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63375148681745713142010-02-24T13:02:21.181+02:002010-02-24T13:02:21.181+02:00Reb daas torah:there are absouletly no sources tha...Reb daas torah:there are absouletly no sources that when it comes to saving a jewish life you worry about eivah<br />========<br />Nope - the situations are not the same. In war time there were large numbers of people that could be potentially saved and there was already eivah. In such a case the calculus is different.<br /><br />In the Grossman situation there were certain things that could and were done that didn't involve aivah. We agree that these measures should and were done.<br /><br />My concern was 1) questioning the legitimacy of society to use capital punishment - Rav Moshe and others say they have the right. 2) Using harassment and slanderous attacks against the governor and the victim's family. Their was little chance that they would be effective and they caused eivah. You seem to assert that if there was a minute chance they would work they must be used.<br /><br />The only real question is if harassment had a reasonable chance of saving him, should they be used even if they would likely cause eivah and chilul hashem. That wasn't the situation and I didn't address the issue.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63291245027796499822010-02-24T12:21:58.597+02:002010-02-24T12:21:58.597+02:00Reb daas torah:there are absouletly no sources tha...Reb daas torah:there are absouletly no sources that when it comes to saving a jewish life you worry about eivah.In the holacust,the mirrer yeshivah would have been finished if eivah was taken into play.Let's face it,it was illegal to raise money and channel it to enemy held territory,through sweden and other countries.The fbi followed r' avraham kalmonowitz zt"l around,and the told him that they were following him,it didn't stop him at all.Imagine the eivah caused by such a headlind,"rabbis trading with the enemy""rabbi arrested for dealing with people in enemy occupied land through illegal means'.But when it came to saving lives r'Avraham zt"l,knew evreything must be done.This was the shittah of r'Aharon kotler zt"l,as well as r' Eleizer silver zt"l,in the musy talks.Imagine the wave of antisemetism if goyin found out, as they almost certainly would,that jews were paying ransom! to the enemy,when american boys were dying on the front.(this during the musy talks)Yet,r' aharon and r' silver did it anyway,when it came to pikuach nefesh.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76018790943387066982010-02-24T02:32:36.483+02:002010-02-24T02:32:36.483+02:00JG,
WADR, I don't think you're telling th...JG,<br /><br />WADR, I don't think you're telling the whole story with regard to your brother and sister-in-law.<br /><br />The BDA and the Israeli Rabbanut do not automatically invalidate a conversion done for marriage. They also do not bar children of intermarriage from converting. <br /><br />I quoted the appropriate section of the GPS standards in a previous post regarding conversion for marriage. The GPS standards also make no mention of barring children of intermarriage from converting. In fact, it states that if someone was raised as a Jew but was not in fact a Jew k'halacha, his conversion (with or without a bracha, depending on the circumstances) may be expedited. See Section 5e (http://www.judaismconversion.org/GPS_Policies_and_Procedures.html)<br /><br />As for Israel, if the Rabbanut has, in fact, adopted such stringent rules, that non-Jews romantically involved with Jews, and even children of intermarriage, are strictly and forever barred from converting, this would be a bigger news story than Rav Sherman invalidating Rav Druckman's conversions. We would have definitely heard about it through the Jewish news organizations and blogs. We have not.<br /><br />This is a part of what ITIM says about the process in Israel for conversion candidates romantically involved with a Jew. (See http://eng.itim.org.il/?CategoryID=208)<br />"A Jewish partner: A Jewish partner will be asked to join you in your studies in ulpan... The bet din will seek to determine whether your spouse intends to be a partner in the way of life you seek to embrace. This includes synagogue attendance, and a gradual adoption of the laws of Shabbat and kashrut."<br /><br />You can say what you will about ITIM's aims and goals. However, they do keep a very close eye on the dynamic situation of geirus in Israel. If the Rabbanut has now decided to bar all conversion candidates romantially involved with Jews, or children of intermarriage, from conversion, they will most definitely make note of it. Needless to say, they have not mentioned such changes.<br /><br />I suggest that you are improperly jumping to incorrect conclusions merely based on some anecdotes and your prejudices.<br /><br />Finally, the posting of your incorrect conclusions are irresponsible and damaging, as it's amounts to motzi shem ra on many gerei tzedek (and their children). Further, your incorrect conclusions may lead some Jews to unnecessarily question the status of many gerei tzedek and stumble on the issur or ona'as hager.Tzurahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32675617907224945422010-02-23T22:44:51.432+02:002010-02-23T22:44:51.432+02:00We know there is a concept of aivah.
Why can'...We know there is a concept of aivah.<br /><br />Why can't someone just use common sense to say there is aivah over the Grossman defense?<br /><br />Who says that poskim have to outline every single potential case that could come up?<br /><br />You know, there are certain yeshivos where bochurim are trained not to think for themselves and are instructed to learn only certain meforshim on the blatt and only certain parts thereof of those meforshim and nothing else.<br /><br />Are these Hoffman critics talmidim of these yeshivos?Just the factsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30536895755387423522010-02-23T22:08:16.994+02:002010-02-23T22:08:16.994+02:00Rabbi hoffman didn't detail any credible halac...Rabbi hoffman didn't detail any credible halachic sources about eivah s far as i saw.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-34117114359862259672010-02-23T21:57:47.014+02:002010-02-23T21:57:47.014+02:00Yaakov should cite at least one other example wher...Yaakov should cite at least one other example where he believes Rabbi Hoffman poskens like a left winger.Says who?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52795170082876681552010-02-23T21:56:33.218+02:002010-02-23T21:56:33.218+02:00More on Rabbi Hoffman and Grossman will be posted ...More on Rabbi Hoffman and Grossman will be posted on a newer thread.Oylem Goylemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77452873278177037932010-02-23T21:43:03.465+02:002010-02-23T21:43:03.465+02:00Why is that considered "smearing him"? I...Why is that considered "smearing him"? Is pointing out the MO take left wing halachic positions also considered "smearing"? I'ts just a staement of fact. Some Rabbis take a rightist approach and some a leftist.<br /><br />R. Hoffman is a blogger for VIN and 5TJT. Read his pieces. Its clear and obvious he takes a liberal halachic approach.Yaakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48008588198669729332010-02-23T21:17:22.706+02:002010-02-23T21:17:22.706+02:00Where have we seen that Rabbi Hoffman poskens alon...Where have we seen that Rabbi Hoffman poskens along left wing lines?<br /><br />Is Yaakov just smearing him?Says who?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76344783687308360662010-02-23T20:16:18.565+02:002010-02-23T20:16:18.565+02:00R. Hoffman takes a far left HALACHIC position, eve...R. Hoffman takes a far left HALACHIC position, even if that happens to coincide with a rightist political position.Yaakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22021909093467981002010-02-23T20:08:08.353+02:002010-02-23T20:08:08.353+02:00Rabbi Hoffman is advocating FOR the death penalty ...Rabbi Hoffman is advocating FOR the death penalty which is a right wing position.<br /><br />The Agudah et al have become dupes of the far Left.Are you kidding?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37391489372911054562010-02-23T18:00:59.394+02:002010-02-23T18:00:59.394+02:00R. Hoffman is wrong. (He usually takes a far left-...R. Hoffman is wrong. (He usually takes a far left-wing position on halachic issues.)Yaakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-68591345975018345302010-02-23T17:29:29.050+02:002010-02-23T17:29:29.050+02:00Rabbi Yair Hoffman has a very detailed answer how ...Rabbi Yair Hoffman has a very detailed answer how Rabbi Eidensohn is correct about aivah and maintains that it was a beracha levatala to ask Gov Crist and also damaged the credibility of Klal Yisroel.Just the factsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23834295188727549482010-02-23T15:16:43.019+02:002010-02-23T15:16:43.019+02:00Aivah is life threatening and it is a simple issue...Aivah is life threatening and it is a simple issue of not sacrificing the life of others to save a life. <br />====================<br />That is <b>your</b> theory, not anything from the sources.<br /><br />The sources said aivah might be life threatening. You (not the sources) made the stretch that therefore you cannot save a Jew's life if it causes eivah.<br /><br />None of the sources though say you cannot engage in Pikuach Nefesh if it causes eivah.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-55053944527610515712010-02-23T15:08:01.107+02:002010-02-23T15:08:01.107+02:00"That's a nice straw man you've built..."That's a nice straw man you've built."<br /><br />not a "straw man". Once the Chief Rabbinute's Office has issued a ruling that a person is not Jewish, then I do not understand how his halachic status could be any different than a Reform, Conservative or Kabbalah Learning Center convert? <br /><br />Should we defy the Chief Rabbi and treat as Jewish someone who has already been ruled non Jewish in Israel? <br /><br />We have already seen many people whose conversions have not been accepted in Israel because the conversions were done to permit an intermarriage. If we know (and we do know now from experience) that these converts are not accepted as Jewish in Israel, can anyone in good conscience make a shidduch between the daughter of a woman who was converted for marriage and a Jewish boy? Is it right to assure the boy's family that the girl is 100% Jewish when you already know that it is very unlikely that she will not be accepted as Jewish in Israel and that therefore his children will not be Jewish according to the Israeli Rabbinute?<br /><br />(Ask me about my brother and he feels now. His wife and children are only Jewish in SOME Orthodox shuls (ie Chabad) in the US, not in Israel. He is FFB, 100% observant his whole life. The Rabbinute in Israel told him to divorce his wife; his wife can never convert and neither can his children because they are the product of an intermarriage. He has been married for 15 years, has several children and loves his family. His wife and children have joined a Conservative shul. He is kosher and Shomer Shabbat 100%, but he does not want to leave his family. <br /><br />Would you knowingly do that to another person?<br /><br /> how is it wrong to ask that the individual have his/her conversion verified by the RCA's BDA under GPS or by the Israeli Rabbinute before we accept the children into yeshivas, give synagogue honors and membership or make shidduchim.<br /><br />If you think that this is a "straw man" argument then you must be a heartless and cruel individual. This is real life and it is a crisis and a tragedy in many of our families including mine.Jersey Girlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11404057290438825912010-02-23T13:36:18.660+02:002010-02-23T13:36:18.660+02:00B said...
Reb daas torah:i see you have not r...B said...<br /><br /> Reb daas torah:i see you have not responded to a previous post what you didn't publish.And i must assume that when you have no halahic sources to prove that eivah is a factor when actions are done to save a jewish life.<br />================<br />I did answer you. Aivah is life threatening and it is a simple issue of not sacrificing the life of others to save a life. <br /><br />In addition to aivah you have chillul hashem.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87677771451295532352010-02-23T13:21:46.178+02:002010-02-23T13:21:46.178+02:00Reb daas torah:i see you have not responded to a p...Reb daas torah:i see you have not responded to a previous post what you didn't publish.And i must assume that when you have no halahic sources to prove that eivah is a factor when actions are done to save a jewish life.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-75798341562153616022010-02-23T05:22:57.413+02:002010-02-23T05:22:57.413+02:00Do you suggest that we disregard the Psak of the C...<i>Do you suggest that we disregard the Psak of the Chief Rabbi and the Rabbis of our community in order to treat anyone who claims to be Jewish (ie Reform and Conservative converts, Anusim, patrilineal descent, Kabbalah Learning Center) as Jews?</i><br /><br />That's a nice straw man you've built.Danielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38623591195666421872010-02-22T17:10:32.704+02:002010-02-22T17:10:32.704+02:00GPS states: "[For converts for whom marriage ...GPS states: "[For converts for whom marriage to a Jew is a major incentive, t]he Beit Din must be convinced that if the potential spouse were to disappear from the candidate’s life, his or her commitment to the Jewish faith and people would not waver."<br /><br />According to this criteria, it would seem that the elderly convert couple you mentioned have passed the test with flying colors. They have apparently remained committed to Yiddishkeit and the Jewish people even after divorcing from their original Jewish spouses.Tzurahnoreply@blogger.com