tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post4174076103440552001..comments2024-03-29T06:06:58.796+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Rav Yosef (3:20) - Forcing only sometimesDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73902613770582859672019-06-26T14:10:25.950+03:002019-06-26T14:10:25.950+03:00searching for help on the internet to get my ex lo...searching for help on the internet to get my ex lover whom will got divorced back, i came across this wonderful man called DR.ODOGBO of ODOGBO TEMPLE who did a nice job by helping me to get my divorced husband back within 48hours.. I never believe that such things like this can be possible but now i am a living testimony to it because ODOGBO TEMPLE actually brought my lover back, If you are having any relationship problems why not contact DR.ODOGBO TEMPLE via email on: (DRODOGBO34@GMAIL.COM ) OR WhatsApp him on +1443 281 3404 Then i promise you that after 48hours you will have reasons to celebrate like me.Reymond Morenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-2291517619525027252012-05-11T02:21:17.072+03:002012-05-11T02:21:17.072+03:00fixed it - thanksfixed it - thanksDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-44623180730436133652012-05-10T22:25:18.213+03:002012-05-10T22:25:18.213+03:00The link to the original teshuva is broken.The link to the original teshuva is broken.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43091248897247151842012-05-10T11:26:28.329+03:002012-05-10T11:26:28.329+03:00Actually Rav Yosef says precisely that in another ...Actually Rav Yosef says precisely that in another Teshuva, that we have examined:<br />http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/05/maus-alei-forced-only-if-disgusting.html<br /><br />Only Rav Shachter and the ORA folks have tried to argue that kefiya is done as soon as the woman wants out, and none of their claimed support supports that.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19409985769796024402012-05-10T10:33:54.466+03:002012-05-10T10:33:54.466+03:00james I can't believe you are asserting that t...james I can't believe you are asserting that this teshuva has anything to do with ORA. ORA goes into action with a simple case of ma'us alei. This is a case where trickery and force was used on a child to get married. He beat her. They are from Yemen where Rambam is normative halacha. There is a clear and likely danger the woman will give up yidddishkeit if she doesn't get a divorce. It is incredible that you think this can be used as a justification for ORA. How do you see this teshuva can justify ORA's activities.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-90060661731144304542012-05-10T08:47:03.055+03:002012-05-10T08:47:03.055+03:00That is one possibility though Rav Yosef clearly d...That is one possibility though Rav Yosef clearly didn't want to go that way. It is rather strange that this case - where there was a forced marriage, she comes from Yemen where the Rambam is the accepted halacha etc etc. - is being cited by the beis din as relevant for a case which seems to be a simple case of ma'us alei.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-31402477338455388672012-05-10T08:32:57.608+03:002012-05-10T08:32:57.608+03:00shoulnd'nt this marriage (forced marriage) hav...shoulnd'nt this marriage (forced marriage) have been annulled? Isn't it a problem that the beith din believes and recongnises that the marriage was forced and still is not ready to annull it? This would mean that they recognise a forced marriage!Batmelechnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63336909473976563452012-05-10T08:14:55.548+03:002012-05-10T08:14:55.548+03:00James I don't agree with that.
Which of the f...James I don't agree with that.<br /><br />Which of the factors that are enumerated above do you think give ORA the right to act?<br /><br />In many ways(such as trying to get the man fired from his job) ORA exceeds halakhic bounds, and in such a way that the final situation may be worse than the first.<br /><br />Take the case that started this: Friedman V. Epstein.<br />1) There is no abuse(that we know of)<br />2) She was not tricked into a marriage<br />3) No B"D has ordered that he give a Get<br />4) All of ROY's teshuvot(except those dealing with domestic violence) only talk about the use of force after years have passed <b>after</b> a B"D has ordered that he give a Get.<br /><br />So I really don't think that you can claim support from this.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-27361587435205448682012-05-10T08:05:39.352+03:002012-05-10T08:05:39.352+03:00In all fairness you are coming in on the 34th seif...In all fairness you are coming in on the 34th seif of this Teshuva, so a lot of water has passed under the bridge already, and I would be willing to say that the beginning of the Teshuva would be more understandable in light of the whole.<br />He makes a number of claims:<br />1) That a Get Meusa, is only invalid M'D'Rabbanan if done by a B"D.<br />2)מאוס עלי combined with other factors(trickery in one case) but he does not elaborate those factors. We can assume from other Teshuvot that he has written that infertility and domestic abuse are also included, allow the use of force.<br />3) Concern that the woman will go into sin is cause for the use of force.<br />4)A B"D ruling that a husband must give a Get and the husbands ongoing refusal to comply is a factor that will allow the use of force.<br /><br />The Teshuva, at least this seif of it, is not just dealing with the one situation, he is enumerating several situations.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttp://mekubal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14674487086281550682012-05-10T06:39:33.529+03:002012-05-10T06:39:33.529+03:00RDE,
Can we at least agree that ORA is acting wit...RDE,<br /><br />Can we at least agree that ORA is acting within the bounds of this teshuva? I am not asking you to agree with ROY, just agree that IF this is correct, ORA's actions are certainly legitimate.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-22394128117406701962012-05-10T01:59:43.760+03:002012-05-10T01:59:43.760+03:00It is vital to note that Rav Yosef felt it necessa...It is vital to note that Rav Yosef felt it necessary to go through loops and loops to justify being matir forcing the husband to divorce her. So, clearly, Rav Yosef holds that in a case where a wife simply declares maos alei, without additional justifying factors, we do not force the husband to divorce her.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11986295751826371732012-05-10T00:52:09.955+03:002012-05-10T00:52:09.955+03:00yes it is difficult to understand what he is doing...yes it is difficult to understand what he is doing. If he is saying that he wants to poskan like the Rambam - he doesn't need to go through all of the factors. So he obviously is just saying that we don't posken like the Rambam - but use it in conjunction with other factors. But I agree with you that there really isn't any need for citing the Rambam - the force is justified even to those who disagree with the RambamDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40284053446418139472012-05-10T00:38:50.599+03:002012-05-10T00:38:50.599+03:00Good to see common sense ruling the day!Good to see common sense ruling the day!Dovynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-82653430471194147412012-05-09T23:46:42.724+03:002012-05-09T23:46:42.724+03:00I do not understand the whole Teshuva. It seems th...I do not understand the whole Teshuva. It seems that according to those who disagree with Rambam this woman cannot be freed with force. But this is wrong. The Rosh clearly says that although anyone who does according to the Rambam the child is a mamzer, in a case where trickery was done to get her married we force the husband to give a GET. I believe it is chapter 35 and his stringent rulings are in chapter 43. This is brought clearly in the Gro and Shulchan Aruch chapter 77. So why make a long teshuva when it is obvious that in such a case we force the husband even according to the Rosh who as the great opponent of doing like the Rambam. Also, this has nothing to do with the general case of MOUS OLEI where the Rosh would consider doing like the Rambam a cause for mamzerut.Dovid Eidensohnhttp://www.getamarriage.comnoreply@blogger.com