tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post338234933653244760..comments2024-03-29T09:34:59.827+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Abuse: Psychotherapist seduction of clients - Yes frum therapists do it also!Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49360122756983768922011-02-16T00:25:33.412+02:002011-02-16T00:25:33.412+02:00DT wrote: "Abuse: Psychotherapist seduction o...DT wrote: <i>"Abuse: Psychotherapist seduction of clients - <b>Yes frum therapists do it also!</b>"</i><br /><br />DT: What evidence do you have, <b>if any</b>, that <i>" frum therapists do it also!"</i><br /><br />Or was that mere supposition on your part?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21995270129116789952011-02-15T23:32:00.880+02:002011-02-15T23:32:00.880+02:00sam -- there are caees where a spouse agrees to re...sam -- there are caees where a spouse agrees to remnain. (promises of fudelity, whatever).<br /><br />spitzer, bill clinton (hillary too), edwards -- in the us.<br /><br />halachically, if the husband doesnt really believe it, i guess its ok, if he wishes to remain in the marriage. its his decision (if its made with proper external advice / counseling.)<br /><br />though halachically, and secular legally, there may be issues of entitlement to a get / secular divorce subsequently, if the spouse "waives" the adultery by subsequent relations, with knowledge.MiMedinat HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43272095398684408162011-02-15T18:33:11.674+02:002011-02-15T18:33:11.674+02:00Anyone in a one person office is subject to the ha...Anyone in a one person office is subject to the halachos of yichud, without the options to be makil. There are various steps to take to insure that there will be all the confidentiality and privacy needed for therapy or counseling without the risk of violating boundaries of halacha.<br /><br />Incidentally, I monitor things like this. There certainly is a problem of professional therapists who cross these ethical, moral, and halachic boundaries. Fortunately, these cases are few. Professionals have procedures to enforce ethical issues such as this. The place where I have found much more trouble is the "paraprofessional", such as the rabbis and related religious individuals who engage in counseling those of opposite gender 1:1. There is no one who would believe that Rabbi Ploni crossed such boundaries. Also, the client is generally needy and dependent, and can more easily succumb to temptation, attention, and affection even when it is a flagrant issur. I wish there was a way to pay closer attention to that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71746388586075530042011-02-15T05:38:59.525+02:002011-02-15T05:38:59.525+02:00I've heard of one Israeli rabbi/therapist who ...I've heard of one Israeli rabbi/therapist who get the wife to perform orally, thus getting around the issue of needing to get divorced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-346820351186845802011-02-15T01:12:25.272+02:002011-02-15T01:12:25.272+02:00nevertheless, most rabbonim will "convince&qu...<i>nevertheless, most rabbonim will "convince" the husband nothing happened, so as to preserve the marriage. the "issur" is only if the husband (cohen or not) believes it really happened.</i><br /><br />What is the benefit of maintaining a marriage with an adulterous woman?<br /><br /><i>4. bigger problem -- "msadrei kiddushin" later marrying an offending couple (after get, etc). totally impermissible. happens all the time -- no justification, except $. (i assume they charge extra for such chuppa ve'kiddushin. a reg chuppa isnt that expensive.)</i><br /><br />The so-called "msadrei kiddushin" will knowingly marry an adulterous woman with the man she committed adultery with?? Shocking to say the least.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37047295925757353752011-02-14T22:08:02.536+02:002011-02-14T22:08:02.536+02:00in the us, (nys, at least) anyone can open an offi...in the us, (nys, at least) anyone can open an office and do therapy. if you want, you can apply for a license to be more "professional."<br /><br />2. for some reason, he has to divorce her, but she doesnt have to divorce him. but there is an "issur caret" of "eishet ish" on her (and the offending paramour), nevertheless, on the original (multiple) acts.<br /><br />if the husband is a cohen, its much stricter.<br /><br />nevertheless, most rabbonim will "convince" the husband nothing happened, so as to preserve the marriage. the "issur" is only if the husband (cohen or not) believes it really happened.<br /><br />4. bigger problem -- "msadrei kiddushin" later marrying an offending couple (after get, etc). totally impermissible. happens all the time -- no justification, except $. (i assume they charge extra for such chuppa ve'kiddushin. a reg chuppa isnt that expensive.)MiMedinat HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84730265076131584632011-02-14T19:35:53.702+02:002011-02-14T19:35:53.702+02:00The article linked below, although primarily about...The article linked below, although primarily about boundary violations in rabbinic situations, also defines boundary violations in general, and discusses them in clinical situations as well:<br /><br />"Rabbi, Make a Fence for Yourself" <br />by Rael Strous <br /><br />(scroll down to link on page)<br /><br />http://www.yctorah.org/content/view/662/10/Shades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-80907787651843786692011-02-14T16:30:35.734+02:002011-02-14T16:30:35.734+02:00"So how can she continue to be married to her..."So how can she continue to be married to her husband after the adultery?"<br /><br />She can't divorce him, what's your question exactlysbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41311911402893380342011-02-13T13:07:35.764+02:002011-02-13T13:07:35.764+02:00Sigmund Freud, the founder of Psychoanalysis, wrot...Sigmund Freud, the founder of Psychoanalysis, wrote about the phenomenon, and sharply criticised it almost 100 years ago. He had 2 arguments: a) it is immoral, and b) it interferes with the actual therapy, since the Analyst has to be objective.<br />Incidentally, he was married to the grand daughter of R' Isaac Bernays - the teacher of R' S.R. Hirsch!Eddie in UKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47107182699408879892011-02-13T09:29:38.700+02:002011-02-13T09:29:38.700+02:00"Seduction by unlicensed therapists apparentl..."Seduction by unlicensed therapists apparently is viewed as two consenting adults."<br /><br />Isn't it prohibited by law to practice therapy unlicensed?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81770520301088549472011-02-13T09:27:51.016+02:002011-02-13T09:27:51.016+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-13864818984555603532011-02-13T09:27:34.102+02:002011-02-13T09:27:34.102+02:00There is also a halachic problem. A married woman ...<i>There is also a halachic problem. A married woman who has sexual relationship with a therapist is committing adultery and her husband needs to divorce her. When a frum married woman is seduced by her therapist - if she files a complaint her husband will most likely believe her and thus must divorce her. The case if the husband doesn't know or doesn't believe his wife must be handled by a major posek. Because of this halachic problem - as well as the disgrace to the family - seduction often goes unreported in the frum community.</i><br /><br />Even if the husband doesn't believe her, SHE knows it happened. So how can she continue to be married to her husband after the adultery?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.com