tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post2948187901472876217..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Going to secular court: When and how? Does beis din need to give permissionDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger107125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9393327845061694102014-05-22T16:50:46.723+03:002014-05-22T16:50:46.723+03:00Sorry but that is not what the Hatam Sofer says. ...Sorry but that is not what the Hatam Sofer says. The Hatam Sofer specifically requires Heter Meah Rabbanim.<br /><br />The Achiezer specifcally says that the man needs to desposit a Get. Nowhere does he say that the Cherem doesn't apply, simiply the need for Heter Meah Rabbanim, like the Beit Shmuel. <br /><br />You are simply making stuff up.Rabbi Michael Tzadoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47808482051561251682014-05-22T14:55:26.146+03:002014-05-22T14:55:26.146+03:00Tzadok the whole need to deposit a get comes from ...Tzadok the whole need to deposit a get comes from the cherem of rabbeinu gershom. There is no requirement to deposit a get where the cherem does not apply. I have not seen the Maharik inside recently but the 2 go together. And again, it is not that the cherem applies according to the chasam sofer in the case of a Moredes but it is required for another reason. And you called people who say in the case of a moredes no chreme no get SICKOS. DISGRACEFUL.halochonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9491939354345318602014-05-22T06:46:48.564+03:002014-05-22T06:46:48.564+03:00No that is not what the Hatam Sofer is saying. Th...No that is not what the Hatam Sofer is saying. The Achiezer is saying that it seems to him that the Hatam Sofer is following the Maharik, who is worried that if we were to allow a man to simply deposit a Get in the case of a moredet, then every time a man has a problem with his wife he will simply call her a moredet.<br /><br />Therefore they believe that it is necessary to require a heter meah rabbanim.<br /><br />Again nowhere does that Achiezer himself say that Cherem Rabbeinu Gershom applies. He is simply holding by the Beit Shmuel's understanding of the Cherem, that in certain cases the Cherem is satisfied with the man depositing a Get with B"D.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05588357039761680453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17411948039891119592014-05-22T06:40:20.600+03:002014-05-22T06:40:20.600+03:00NO!!! The Achiezer quotes the Hatam Sofer as sayi...NO!!! The Achiezer quotes the Hatam Sofer as saying that there needs to be a Heter:<br />דבתשוב' חת''ס חאה''ע סי' ג השוה את הדין דאפילו בפשעה צריק התר ק' רבנים ולפי נראה גדר גדרו עפ"י מש"ב המהרי"ק כי הדור פרוץ ואם יתירו במורדת יבואו להתיר גם לכשהדיחו תבשילו ויאמר שהיא מורדת<br /><i>In the Teshuva of the Hatam Sofer, Even HaEzer Siman 3 he explains that even in the case of sin there needs to be a heter meah rabbanim and it would seem that this boundary is according to the Maharik that the generation is becoming immorral and if he were to free him in the case of a moredet he will come to free him also when his wife burns his food and he says she is a moredet.</i><br /><br />Clearly the Hatam Sofer, according to the understanding of the Achiezer requires a heter meah rabbanim.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05588357039761680453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-79667903493966013832014-05-21T17:17:04.391+03:002014-05-21T17:17:04.391+03:00Tzadok stop lying. The chasam sofer says that alth...Tzadok stop lying. The chasam sofer says that although the cheirem doesnt apply, he is concerned rhat people will ignore it in cases where it does apply and is strict. However in case of waiting more than 4 years with a moredes it dies not apply so you cant read hebrew and are guilty of lying. stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78555271065079983732014-05-21T17:05:58.086+03:002014-05-21T17:05:58.086+03:00Michael,
At the end of the day you admit the botto...Michael,<br />At the end of the day you admit the bottom line is that the Chasam Sofer rules that he can remarry a) without effecting a Get AND b) without getting a Heter Meah Rabbonim.yisroelmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50089677808539428872014-05-21T15:31:34.357+03:002014-05-21T15:31:34.357+03:00LOL... You really can't read Hebrew can you?
...LOL... You really can't read Hebrew can you?<br /><br />There he writes that Chatam Sofer says that man does need a heter meah Rabbanim(Seven lines down at the, starting at the end of the line).<br /><br />He also write עיקר החרם עליו the essence of the Cherem is still upon him. Namely that he still has to write a Ketubah and deposit it with a B"D. As the Beit Shmuel says. <br /><br />He <b>does not</b> say that Cherem Rabbeinu Gershom doesn't apply, he says, taking all the factors into account, that given the situation there is what to rely upon to not need a Heter Meah Rabbanim.<br /><br />Keep trolling Stan. It's always interesting.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-42572901666393146792014-05-21T12:47:14.463+03:002014-05-21T12:47:14.463+03:00tzadok who are you kidding lying again.. you obvio...tzadok who are you kidding lying again.. you obviously never read the teshuva I referred you to or you can't read hebrew. for those who can read hebrew please see below"<br /><br />http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14671&st=&pgnum=65<br /><br />see daled and in particular the top of the left column of this page. tzadok you are a joke.<br /><br />show us sources where you looked this up.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43911336708160117942014-05-21T09:52:01.568+03:002014-05-21T09:52:01.568+03:00RMT: Your logic still doesn't hold. If the wif...RMT: Your logic still doesn't hold. If the wife could logically say kim li to demand beis din us the minority opinion allowing kefiyah l'get, the husband could equally say kim li to demand beis din use the majority opinion forbidding use of kefiyah l'get. Which puts beis din at a standstill and makes no sense. <br /><br />So your earlier retort using this example (May 20 / 8:44pm) does not answer the two points in my challenge to you (May 20 / 7:51pm).amnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23036078509177625772014-05-21T07:45:42.343+03:002014-05-21T07:45:42.343+03:00Not true. A classic case of Kim LI is Rav Yossi H...Not true. A classic case of Kim LI is Rav Yossi HaGalili eating a birds head boiled in milk.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-20095951551892698712014-05-21T07:44:17.869+03:002014-05-21T07:44:17.869+03:00Well I've looked up the Rabbi Akiva Eiger and ...Well I've looked up the Rabbi Akiva Eiger and the Chatam Sofer and neither say what you claim. So I am convinced that you are once again lying.<br /><br />Thanks for yet another troll job sockpuppet.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81977497675544591312014-05-21T06:44:41.251+03:002014-05-21T06:44:41.251+03:00Poster "am" is correct in his explanatio...Poster "am" is correct in his explanation of "Kim Li". (Other than that point, I don't want to get involved in the disagreement whether Chrem Rabbeinu Gershom applies in a case of a moredes.)Chaim Tzvi Blobsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36274613381035428052014-05-21T03:19:43.473+03:002014-05-21T03:19:43.473+03:00"Tzadok you need help" - Very true words..."Tzadok you need help" - Very true words. Tzadok has been bashing and denigrating one prominent Ashkenazi rav or gadol after another on this blog, including contemptuous attacks on Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Dovid Eidensohn, Rav Gestetner, Rabbi Aryeh Spero, etc. Tzadok's latest "sicko" comment against great Ashkenazi poskim is simply abhorrent. <br /><br />In response to criticism against him, Tzadok attempts to divert the discussion to the army of imaginary sock-puppets in Tzadok's mind. Its just pathetic.EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63130370865569901852014-05-21T03:05:33.353+03:002014-05-21T03:05:33.353+03:00Whoever he is and whatever your fight is all about...Whoever he is and whatever your fight is all about, I post under this name and never saw anyone else post using it. And I am not part of that cabal list you reference. Please keep me out of this.Ben Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3776767237938658492014-05-21T02:24:07.992+03:002014-05-21T02:24:07.992+03:00"There are some sickos that try every now and..."There are some sickos that try every now and again, and they get roundly denounced" that is what you said in response to those who hold that rabbeinu gershom doesn't apply in the case of a moredes. And those who hold that are rav chaim oyzer, the maharashdam, r akiva eiger and the chasam sofer. So if you want to find those that argue on them that's your prerogative but few would go against such big guns tzadok. Just face reality - your remark what that of an ignoramous eho has been caught out and who now refuses to apologize. I dont know who you did shimush under as you allege but please already you are ignorant and that's the bottom line.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5772373132780993512014-05-21T00:25:03.851+03:002014-05-21T00:25:03.851+03:00Kim li only works in dinei mamonos based on the pr...Kim li only works in dinei mamonos based on the principle of mamon hamotel b'safek hamotzi mechaveiro alav haraya. No person has a right to force a posek's hand by claiming kim li in issur v'hetter, where the posek or dayan (with proper authority over the case) has full authority to decide what the halacha is with respect to that case.amnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-92222619445969714392014-05-21T00:17:47.788+03:002014-05-21T00:17:47.788+03:00RMT: Kim Li doesn't work for kefiyah l'get...RMT: Kim Li doesn't work for kefiyah l'get. Kim li is if someone receives a demand for payment in beis din, they can say kim li with another source that they don't have to pay. Kil Li works if the person claiming kim li already has possession of what is being demanded. Kim li cannot be used to force beis din to use a specific shitta you want beis din to use. Otherwise the husband could equally kim li to use the (vast) majority shitta that prohibits the use of kefiyah l'get.<br /><br />And you haven't addressed my valid point that he has the right to use the shitta of his posek. If his posek paskens with a minority opinion allowing him to proceed, there is no reason he is bound by other halachic opinions opposing that halachic opinion.<br /><br />(FTR, I'm not stan. You should be able to easily tell that by the vast differences in our English vocabulary and language skills.)<br />amnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83188929437424488752014-05-20T22:26:18.406+03:002014-05-20T22:26:18.406+03:00Tzadok you need help. Tzadok just read the achieze...Tzadok you need help. Tzadok just read the achiezer and stop making a fool of yourself with your wild allegations. No one woukd be daft enough to steal your identity. Exactly whixh blog do you allege stole your identity?joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173432911228335919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11086839411499312032014-05-20T21:18:16.543+03:002014-05-20T21:18:16.543+03:00Bad enough tzadok calls me a liar and fellon with ...Bad enough tzadok calls me a liar and fellon with zeri proof and his garbage is published ob thia blog. But to call the achiezer, maharashdam, rab akiva eiger and the chasam sofer sickos, unbelievable!!!!<br /><br />Blog owner how do you allow tzadok to publish such filth on your blog?????????? stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-74090333397494819252014-05-20T20:55:41.923+03:002014-05-20T20:55:41.923+03:00You said:
According to most poskim in the case of ...You said:<br /><i>According to most poskim in the case of a moredes the cheirem of rabbeinu gershom doesnt apply</i><br />I'm still waiting for your most poskim. Please demonstrate your Rov Poskim with verifiable sources. <br /><br />Secondly where did I call the Achiezer(even if he says what you claim which is doubtful, considering your inability to read Hebrew and your tendency to falsify statements) a sicko?<br /><br />I said:<br /> <i>Sorry Stan, but Rov Poskim do not hold that we can throw away Rabbeinu Gershom. <br />There are some sickos that try every now and again, and they get roundly denounced.</i><br />Now are you claiming that the Achiezer is a daat yachid in not holding by Cherem Rabbeinu Gershom? Otherwise my comment doesn't apply to him.<br /><br />Now lets talk about your felonious identity theft and lying deceiving sockpuppetry shall we? Before we can begin to take you seriously or any charges that you may try to level against anyone, you really do need to come clean and apologize for trying to deceive the community here through your sockpuppetry. <br /><br />How many identities have you used Stan/Joe/EmesL'Yaakov/Ben Torah/Anti Rabbinut? Are you the same troll that defended Tropper all those years ago? <br /><br />You need to explain how comments that were blocked here showed up on a blog that you started under my name. Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18214848116076115292014-05-20T20:45:55.701+03:002014-05-20T20:45:55.701+03:00Tzadok answer the achiezer and you calling him a s...Tzadok answer the achiezer and you calling him a sicko. Secondly provide me with 6 million tik nos IDs etc you revisioniststannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-54800060281452583262014-05-20T20:44:31.240+03:002014-05-20T20:44:31.240+03:00It does work. The wife can say Kim Li. Or altern...It does work. The wife can say Kim Li. Or alternately by your logic Tamar Epstein should be free. After all a minority opinion says so... We can go on, but in the end Stan sockpuppet... it doesn't work.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-19191778225702548962014-05-20T20:21:12.656+03:002014-05-20T20:21:12.656+03:00Tzadok answer the achiezer and you calling him a s...Tzadok answer the achiezer and you calling him a sicko. Secondly provide me with 6 million tik nos IDs etc you revisioniststannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3342049226522886012014-05-20T19:51:43.540+03:002014-05-20T19:51:43.540+03:00RMT: Your logic doesn't work since the only wa...RMT: Your logic doesn't work since the only way kefiyah l'get could be implemented is via beis din. And it has to be a beis din both parties acquiesced jurisdiction to. The wife cannot unilaterally impose her chosen beis din on her husband. So he can veto jurisdiction and utilization of any beis din that will rely on such a minority opinion for kefiyah l'get.<br /><br />OTOH, for him to utilize the opinion we are discussing, even if we assume it is a minority one, he doesn't need a beis din and he surely doesn't need her to acquiesce to anything. He can ask his shaila to his own chosen posek. And his posek can allow him to proceed based on the minority opinion. No one can force him to go with other opposing halachic opinions.amnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8133510345619730912014-05-20T19:37:37.215+03:002014-05-20T19:37:37.215+03:00Get me a tik number and we can talk. Until then n...Get me a tik number and we can talk. Until then no dice.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.com