tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post2246054137901119146..comments2024-03-29T09:34:59.827+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Schlesinger Twins: Letter of British Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11867191700756540932014-05-22T16:42:33.848+03:002014-05-22T16:42:33.848+03:00Stan,
Since you have said that you are close to ...Stan,<br /><br /><br />Since you have said that you are close to Rav Gestetner why don't you get him to write about the matter on his letter head. I think it would be very informative for everyone here.Rabbi Michael Tzadoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3207371379507228122014-05-22T16:00:50.947+03:002014-05-22T16:00:50.947+03:00In what sense is Dr. Schlesinger providing chinuch...In what sense is Dr. Schlesinger providing chinuch? 2 filipinos? The chinuch he is providing is the kindergarten. Why do you think Beth can't do better?Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38220466418832071762014-05-22T15:58:20.212+03:002014-05-22T15:58:20.212+03:00When I show you that your original declaration is ...When I show you that your original declaration is not THE halacha your <br />response is simply to bad mouth Rav Sternbuch and claim (without any <br />evidence) that Rav Schach would agree with you. Rav Sternbuchis not a <br />minoriy opinion either.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-9286571689948424072014-05-22T15:57:22.605+03:002014-05-22T15:57:22.605+03:00I said i was sorry for beth at the beginning. i al...I said i was sorry for beth at the beginning. i also never criticized her but R mervis. And even secular society in many countries today wwould take issue with his claiming the mother generally raises the children as of right which certainly what he implied and is against the halocho because even according to you the children go to the best parent and not necessarily the mother. Once again a modern orthodox rabbi shows he doesn't care ki hu ze for halocho. And that is my issue. And I would expect Torah abiding fathers to be very angry with Rabbi mervis.halochonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-27256628644485705912014-05-22T15:55:08.382+03:002014-05-22T15:55:08.382+03:00@stan you have an incredible ability to not unders...@stan you have an incredible ability to not understand the issue that you make strong assertions about. <br /><br />Let's walk through this slowly. @halacha claimed that at age six the halacha is that boys automatically go to their father<br />"I<br /> feel very sorry for Beth. However once the boys are 6 unless there is <br />proof that the father is not looking after his sons properly he gets <br />them al pi halocho. "<br /><br />I responded that this automatic going to <br />father was not the view of Rav Sternbuch and other poskim. That the <br />issue is what is best for the child. Rav Sternbuch explains that due to <br />the existence of yeshivos and beis yaakov - they can compensate for the <br />Torah education of the parent..<br /><br />It is obvious to the rest of us <br />that it can often be true that a mother with a yeshiva system is better<br /> for the children than the father. Likewise that a father with a beis <br />yaakov can often be better than a mother.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-701625796087230182014-05-22T15:53:09.676+03:002014-05-22T15:53:09.676+03:00so he disagrees with Rav Sternbuch. You made a cat...so he disagrees with Rav Sternbuch. You made a categorical statement that custody of boys go to the father if he isn't negligent - I simply noted that poskim disagreeDaas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61822552743085576332014-05-22T15:50:50.670+03:002014-05-22T15:50:50.670+03:00you should say what you mean - and that is not wha...you should say what you mean - and that is not what you originally wrote. Furthermore what is best for the children is not only when the father can do a minimal job. That is clearly where you and Rav Gestetner as you described it - disagree with Rav Sternbuch.Daas Torahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85994901417653741582014-05-22T15:10:49.706+03:002014-05-22T15:10:49.706+03:00I am not talking about this case where if the fath...I am not talking about this case where if the father is not doing a good job he should still have the children and made that clear in the beginning. What i am doing is criticizing the ridiculous assertion of R Mervis in which he makes a statement in general about a court depriving a mother of her right to raise her children which is pure feminism and against halocho. Again for those who can't comprehend I am not referring to this case specifically where it sounds like the father does not know what he doing if beth's allegations are true.<br /><br /><br />As for patience nonsense of worrying about Zenut a father is allowed to sleep under the same blanket as his daughter.<br /><br /><br />Stop putting words into either into my mouth or rav gestetner's mouth. We are not tsalking about incapable parents but where a father is capable he gets the boys. And Daas Torah keep out the condecending sickening remarks. For someone so arrogant you have made a mighty lot of assumptions which are totally wrong. Obviously the halocho that the father gets the boys would not apply if the father is incapable. My issue was with the sickening generalization of R Mervis who doesn't seem to know or care what the halocho is in line with most if not all modern orthodox rabbis. If you complain that I shouldn't genrealize because you are speaking about a specific case don't critisize me for that because you are the one who quoted r mervis who was generalizing. <br /><br /><br />Again I certainly feel sorry for beth that she denied meaningful access to her child so stop putting words in my mouth, stop name calling, stop being condecending and most of all you are the one who is denigrating rav gestetner who is also an odom godol.halochonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78143887365319207792014-05-22T15:00:13.316+03:002014-05-22T15:00:13.316+03:00I would like to state categorically that Rav Geste...I would like to state categorically that Rav Gestetner does not agree that the boys can go to the mother because chinuch is obtained from yeshvohs today.halochonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52278650352047500232014-05-22T14:20:24.510+03:002014-05-22T14:20:24.510+03:00Stan/@halachos,
You have claimed that you are clo...Stan/@halachos,<br /><br />You have claimed that you are close to Rav Gestetner, even claimed to be on his B"D at one point. It would be really nice if you could get a written response from him, on his typical letterhead regarding Rav Shternbuch teshuva and more importantly Beth's claim to her children.<br /><br />Much like the letters you got from him on previous cases, I think this would be very informative for the audience here.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30448761200459218402014-05-22T10:58:45.642+03:002014-05-22T10:58:45.642+03:00"When I show you that your original declarati..."When I show you that your original declaration is not THE halacha"<br /><br />1) You should meditate about the fact that so many people THINK it is THE halacha<br /><br />2) One Rabbi does not yet make halacha<br /><br />3) For all we know, the present arrangement is not incompatible with Rav Sternbuch's psak. you have not seen the children, you cannot determinate what caused their slow speech development, and you have not heard Schlesinger's side of the story (and Schlesinger has no obligation to provide you with it, since you are not a beith din, and even if you were, you could not judge the case since you heard one side before).<br /><br />4) Visitation for the non-custodial parent or shared custody are NOT concepts anchored in halacha. Any claim that one parent has "a halachic right to a child" is bogus. Halacha does not care whether the children of divorced parents are in contact with both parents or not. Actually, halacha prefers a strict separation of divorced parents, so as not to arise any occasion of znut.<br /><br />The only parameter that can be clearly read from rav sternbuch's psak is that OTD parents should not get custody, in his opinion.Patiencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-20280378492646294252014-05-22T10:34:29.302+03:002014-05-22T10:34:29.302+03:00@stan you have an incredible ability to not unders...@stan you have an incredible ability to not understand the issue that you make strong assertions about. <br /><br />Let's walk through this slowly. @halacha claimed that at age six the halacha is that boys automatically go to their father<br />"I feel very sorry for Beth. However once the boys are 6 unless there is proof that the father is not looking after his sons properly he gets them al pi halocho. "<br /><br />I responded that this automatic going to father was not the view of Rav Sternbuch and other poskim. That the issue is what is best for the child. Rav Sternbuch explains that due to the existence of yeshivos and beis yaakov - they can compensate for the Torah education of the parent..<br /><br />It is obvious to the rest of us that it can often be true that a mother with a yeshiva system is better for the children than the father. Likewise that a father with a beis yaakov can often be better than a mother.<br /><br />Rav Gestetner thinks that Dr. Schlesinger's virtual parenting with two filipinos is better than what Beth can provide?! Even though it meets @halachos minimum standards for custody it is clearly inferior to what Beth can provide and thus is not in the best interest of the twins.<br /><br />In sum, Stan you are ignoring the issue that we are talking about and insisting on a one dimensional black and white solution with a lot of abuse language tossed in. I think it is amazing that Rav Gestetner or any other rav would criticize Rav Sternbuch without even reading the original teshuva. I also am amazed that he has not come across situations - such as the present case - where the father is clearly not the best option for the twins.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8310350930767849162014-05-22T09:41:47.823+03:002014-05-22T09:41:47.823+03:00Let's see an official psak from rav gestetner ...Let's see an official psak from rav gestetner on this case then. I suggest he does adequate research first. Until then, you can't predict what his opinion is.leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-49336927431856216282014-05-22T09:37:29.059+03:002014-05-22T09:37:29.059+03:00In this case the father is the worst possible pare...In this case the father is the worst possible parent regardless of the methods you use to measure it.solonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-799447438220719242014-05-22T04:53:39.754+03:002014-05-22T04:53:39.754+03:00Rav Shternbuch is paskening on that particular cas...Rav Shternbuch is paskening on that particular case. In this and other cases it may well be the father is the better parent.Hannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58303821929820798972014-05-22T04:51:45.671+03:002014-05-22T04:51:45.671+03:00Daas Torah is a nationally known website is Austri...Daas Torah is a nationally known website is Austria.Hannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85505292877716044192014-05-22T04:49:19.199+03:002014-05-22T04:49:19.199+03:00"Your comment is incredible but you obviously..."Your comment is incredible but you obviously missed the point and really have no understanding of this issue. Did your rav also tell you that Rav Sternbuch is wrong and that the halachoc is as you stated?!"<br /><br />Your arrogance is beyond belief. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't understand the issue. i would actually the opposite. You clearly don't understand the role of a father al pi halocho in terms of chinuch. Not only did my Rov say that but i checked with rav gestetner. While he said he hadn't seen the teshuva of rav sternbuch, he said claiming that a yeshiva replaced the chinuch of the father "made no sense". he said sharfer even but I won't quote him. You have an unbelievable chutzpah to think only you understand and I don't. Stop attacking personally and stop acting like a stary eyed baal teshuva. I guess you can now claim that not only I but my Rov and Rav Gestetner don't understand the issue. Please.<br /><br />RAV GESTETNER WAS ADAMANT: NO YESHIVA CAN EVER REPLACE THE ROLE OF THE FATHER WHEN IT COMES TO CHINUCH.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84189265418784938422014-05-22T03:26:18.189+03:002014-05-22T03:26:18.189+03:00Halocho, these children don't want davening, t...Halocho, these children don't want davening, they want their mummyLeahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-644493950244211612014-05-22T03:26:00.451+03:002014-05-22T03:26:00.451+03:00@halocho I also saw eliyohu hanovi and he told me ...@halocho I also saw eliyohu hanovi and he told me you were talking absolute nonsense!!navinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29387969036727719592014-05-22T03:21:40.268+03:002014-05-22T03:21:40.268+03:00He's South AfricanHe's South AfricanZanvelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56178305036362893942014-05-22T03:09:24.862+03:002014-05-22T03:09:24.862+03:00@halocho why don't you review what the issue i...@halocho why don't you review what the issue is and your response. Then please take both to your rov and ask him if your response is appropriate.<br /><br />please let me know what he has to say on the matter.Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17714713912308829282014-05-22T03:06:13.812+03:002014-05-22T03:06:13.812+03:00Your comment is incredible but you obviously misse...Your comment is incredible but you obviously missed the point and really have no understanding of this issue. Did your rav also tell you that Rav Sternbuch is wrong and that the halachoc is as you stated?!Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89322703601100323242014-05-22T02:47:20.145+03:002014-05-22T02:47:20.145+03:00do they at least acknowledge kniowing of the "...do they at least acknowledge kniowing of the "data torah" blog?MiMedinat HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41163782163072691222014-05-22T02:23:09.071+03:002014-05-22T02:23:09.071+03:00"A boy needs chinuch in davening and learning..."A boy needs chinuch in davening and learning out of school." - Is that why Schlesinger hires full time Filipino nannies and he hardly ever sees his own children? Are these nannies such experts in davening and limmud torah?<br /><br /> Nannynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43184343124100023092014-05-22T01:50:10.125+03:002014-05-22T01:50:10.125+03:00PS: A Litvishe Rosh yeshiva son of a big rosh yesh...PS: A Litvishe Rosh yeshiva son of a big rosh yeshiva and grandson of someone who he claims saw Eliyohu hanovi said the same thing about Reb Moshe's psak on not building an eiruv in Brooklyn -his sevorah is weak. he added though that since we referring to himself rely on reb moshe for many many kulohs we can't pick and choose but he totally doesnt get reb moshe's psak on an eiruv. Does that mean he is bad mouthing reb moshe. I think you are paranoid.halochonoreply@blogger.com