tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post1936409389713397049..comments2024-03-28T02:08:17.990+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Intermarried Jew seeks advice on Jewish pathDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36585322495508050812023-02-02T15:39:09.854+02:002023-02-02T15:39:09.854+02:00I hate these ones - where being a good person conf...I hate these ones - where being a good person conflicts with being a good Jew.Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-68200437833767748022012-09-10T14:33:47.624+03:002012-09-10T14:33:47.624+03:00OK, sorry, &thx. I see I could have gotten my...OK, sorry, &thx. I see I could have gotten my answer from <a rel="nofollow"><i>H' Issurei Biah</i> 13:14-16</a>.Passaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45704507317622273722012-09-10T11:13:56.215+03:002012-09-10T11:13:56.215+03:00As I said a pilegesh must be a Jewish woman
The t...As I said a pilegesh must be a Jewish woman<br /><br />The translation of above teshuva is found here<br /><br />http://pilegesh.blogspot.co.il/2006/10/rabbi-yaakov-emdens-answer-regarding.htmlDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-83823827947695034352012-09-10T05:13:20.281+03:002012-09-10T05:13:20.281+03:00DT,
Sorry, I just saw this response now. All I k...DT,<br /><br />Sorry, I just saw this response now. All I know about the subject is the existence of this one teshuva, but I presume(d) that there must be more?<br /><i>Shaiyilos u'Teshuvos HaYaavetz</i> II: #15.<br /><br />Looking fwd, as ever, to learning more from your researches. ThanksPassaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43185797581836578042012-09-02T19:23:24.045+03:002012-09-02T19:23:24.045+03:00not sure what you are talking about. Never heard o...not sure what you are talking about. Never heard of a Jew allowed having a Gentile concubine. I have posted number of items regarding pilgesh - which is a Jewish concubine.<br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/rav-sternbuchpilegesh-civil-marriage.html<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/pilegesh-sharuch-eh-261-summary-of-views.html<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/pilegesh-intalmudic-texts-kesubah.html<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/r-moshe-feinstein-pilegesh-no-kiddushin.html<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/pligesh-permitted-by-rav-if-wife-is.html<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/letter-from-steipler-to-rav-eliashiv.htmlDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39721428052721984062012-09-02T18:19:14.909+03:002012-09-02T18:19:14.909+03:00DT,
Can't figure how halakhic concubinism fail...DT,<br />Can't figure how halakhic concubinism fails to get any mention here. Seeing as, from hilkhos gittin, we assume these marriages to be halakhically insubstantial, we can't the Gentile wife in question have the din of a concubine?<br />Any material you have on hand that might enlighten would be appreciated. I'm sure this must've been brought up before....Passaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84993144341430338362012-09-02T18:16:02.543+03:002012-09-02T18:16:02.543+03:00I believe that there's substantial rabbinic di...I believe that there's substantial rabbinic discussion, albeit little studied today, of the legality of having a Gentile concubine. What's more, I think the Yaavetz rules leniently. I am not qualified to delve further, but this is obviously an avenue you've failed to consider.<br /><br />Since you're so quick to offer advice, here some suited to the month of Ellul: When you find yourself replying to thoughtful questions with truisms ("Jewish law is binding"), best reconsider; more than likely your reply ill befits the thoughtfulness of the question, perhaps misses some essentials, and regardless may halakhically implicate you in a failure of kavod habriyos.Passaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-33397886345453056172012-09-02T18:09:18.075+03:002012-09-02T18:09:18.075+03:00To clarify: by "post" I meant Josh T'...To clarify: by "post" I meant Josh T's reply, not the blogpost it replies to.Passaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-7036832957031148452012-09-02T17:15:31.750+03:002012-09-02T17:15:31.750+03:00DT,
Can you please suppress this tasteless post?
DT,<br />Can you please suppress this tasteless post?<br />Passaic friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-192433573942595422012-08-31T04:53:06.212+03:002012-08-31T04:53:06.212+03:00Welcome home our brother!
Your grandfather in ...Welcome home our brother!<br /><br /> Your grandfather in heaven is getting great nachas from every mitzvah you do down here on earth. Without your wife you may have never returned to Judaism in this lifetime. Thank G-d that she was there for you 35 years. There are many like you.<br /><br />It is important thing to remember:<br />1)Every mitzvah counts. The whole world was created for Adam and Chava and they had only one mitzvah. Every Mitzvah is a whole world.<br /><br />2)You have to be honest with yourself where you are up to NOW. The torah of truth says if you grasp too much you have grasped nothing. we have to be realistic of what we are ready to do.<br /> <br />3)The evil inclination says I am never going to divorce her so maybe all my efforts to do mitzvos are for naught.<br />The talmud tells us both in a positive manner and negative manner every deed has meaning evil king menasheh is held acountable for minor rabbinic transgressions...how much more so the power of good!<br />the few steps of evil kings in honor of G-d are given great reward how much more so our deeds....<br /><br />3)Rabbis and those who are asked to give their opinion on Jewish law cannot sanctify compromise by saying it is ok she is a great woman. Just as they cannot say it is ok that you made kiddush friday night, had challah and non Kosher chicken it is not ok...but It was good you made kiddush and had the challah...the chicken you will work on when your wife is on board with the kosher. <br /><br />There are many things in life that are not ok. We have to recognise that we cannot change everything at once and we have to do know what mitzvos positive and negative we are capable of doing and without backsliding and giving up. <br /><br /> A dear friend of mine is a Cohen married to a woman of another faith and they have two daughters. He has since begun a reurn to Judaism. His wife is committed to another religion. Even if she was not and wanted to convert he would not be able to stay married to her as a cohen cannot marry a convert. (there may be some ways to deal with that but a. she does not want to convert and b. he is not ready to leave her ) <br />He has made a choice to intergrate into his life more and more mitzvos. Today he prays 3 times a day, puts on teffilin daily and studies Torah daily, Halacha, Talmud, chassidic thought. Shabbos and kosher are moving forward bit by bit...<br />At this point of his life he has put on hold the issues of his marriage and is working on 612 other commandments...<br /><br /> According to our tradition all the women who married our great leaders converted to Judaism <br /> <br />One final thought that some here may take issue with. Whereever we are is where we are meant to be. Free choice is a door once we walk through becomes divine providence. Now that we find ourselves in a place where wrong choices were made we have to ask ourselves what positive choices can I make at this moment in this imperfect world.<br /><br />As you progress in keeping torah and mitzvos you may come to a time when you know you have to move somewhere where you can observe more. Your family dynamic may change, her interest may change. All that is ahead of you. May this year be a year where you and your family are as full of mitzvos as a pomogranate!Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-1276774362405492222012-08-30T17:47:52.026+03:002012-08-30T17:47:52.026+03:00Thanks, DT and RaP.
No one responded to the lett...Thanks, DT and RaP. <br /><br />No one responded to the letter writer's claim that great men of Tanakh intermarried, so I thought I'd respond briefly. Avraham, Yitzhak, Yaacov and Moshe married converts, not gentiles. As we see with the examples of Pinchas and especially Ezra, intermarriage without conversion is certainly disapproved of in Tanakh. As for Esther, the Talmud explains that she was forced to be with the non-Jewish king, and was in fact married to Mordechai.<br /><br />This article addresses a slightly different situation that with the letter writer, but I think it's representative of Chabad's approach (to be welcoming and stress that every mitzvah a Jew can do is very valuable and should be encouraged regardless of someone's life situation.)<br /><br />http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/913069/jewish/Can-I-Keep-Judaism-If-My-Wife-is-Not-Jewish.htmyeshayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65295510798990398742012-08-30T10:34:23.272+03:002012-08-30T10:34:23.272+03:00See RaP's comments. Also search the archives f...See RaP's comments. Also search the archives for his additional postings on the "end of kiruv". <br /><br />Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14608017427328940882012-08-30T10:31:53.612+03:002012-08-30T10:31:53.612+03:00Thanks for the explanation, but how can you say th...Thanks for the explanation, but how can you say that R' Sternbuch's view is the same as R' Feinstein's view, when the latter supports EJF and now its current incarnation? They don't believe in shunning people at all, and believe conversion should be encouraged in the case of intermarriage (provided they didn't get married knowing it was wrong and intending to convert later).<br /><br />================<br />Actually in my archives there are two different views. search under "Reuven Feinstein". There is an official written position paper and the transcript I made from his recorded comments. In both cases he is claiming agreement with Rav Eliashiv and asserting that his position is main stream - but the views seem to be significantly different. I am equating Rav Sternbuch and Rav Feinstein based on the transcript.<br /><br />The transcript is clearly at variance with what EJF was doingDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-15332641882302896632012-08-30T06:54:04.325+03:002012-08-30T06:54:04.325+03:00Jews married to gentiles, gentiles married to Jews...Jews married to gentiles, gentiles married to Jews, Jews joining the gentiles, gentiles wanting to be Jews...the <b>subtext</b> of it all: The end of the classical era of kiruv, that lasted about 50 years, from the 1950s to the 1990s, when those who were be being reached were in all probability Halachic Jews. But since the 1990s it all changed and kiruv programs now do not know who the people are that come to them.<br /><br />Just in this scenario, there is an intermarried older couple (the wife is not Jewish), with children who are not Halachically Jewish (but may think they are, because their father is Jewish i.e. based on Reform's patrilineal descent schism), and presumably even grandkids from the next generation. <br /><br />This is the end of kiruv, and the dawn of a new era. It's all about <b>geirus</b> (CONVERSION) issues NOT conventional Kiruv anymore as the term was used to bring secular Jews back to Yiddishkeit. <br /><br />Tropper grasped all this, he was ahead of the curve in terms of where the filed is moving, and that is why he went on to the "next level" of how to deal with the intermarried who are the secular Jewish majority in America, but he self-destructed, no wonder. And in Israel with about 300,000 Russsian gentile non-Halachic "Jews" it's minority of the general Israeli Jewish population and their families and descendants.<br /><br />Rav Elyashiv stated a long time ago that it is time to open sifrei yuchsin (reliable records of Jewish births), but the American Aguda balked.Recipients and Publicitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-41293504060773778882012-08-30T04:25:43.504+03:002012-08-30T04:25:43.504+03:00Thanks for the explanation, but how can you say th...Thanks for the explanation, but how can you say that R' Sternbuch's view is the same as R' Feinstein's view, when the latter supports EJF and now its current incarnation? They don't believe in shunning people at all, and believe conversion should be encouraged in the case of intermarriage (provided they didn't get married knowing it was wrong and intending to convert later).<br /><br />The Reform know that some people have a problem with intermarriage, but most of them have no problem with it themselves. Nor do unaffiliated Jews, who think it is racist to insist on marrying a Jew. The fact is, even if Jews are raised with some knowledge of Judaism in a non-Orthodox context, they are not taught, nor do they believe that halacha is actually required. So if they grow up not believing anything is really required, then intermarry like their parents and all their friends, then why shun them? They are like child captives, immersed in non-Torah ideologies.<br /><br />We are not really talking about the letter writer and his wife entering some kind of Aish-type kiruv program that systematically tries to convince people to be frum. He's just talking about starting to attend Chabad events or services. It's still called "kiruv" but Chabad knows not the prostelytize -- if she asks they'll tell her she doesn't have to convert; just can just be a good Noahide. But would they say she's not welcome? Or refuse to teach her if she decides she wants to convert? No way. Nor should they. I think it would be the same in many, perhaps most Modern Orthodox shuls. yeshayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56803375446113693692012-08-30T00:19:14.757+03:002012-08-30T00:19:14.757+03:00"However, there are some (left wing modern or..."However, there are some (left wing modern orthodox) rabbis who believe in converting intermarried spouses who aren't going to completely accept the mitzvos (R' Marc Angel, etc.), based on the views of former Sephardic Chief rabbi Uziel."<br /><br />and the divrei chaim, hardly (what today would be called) a LWMO, who also advocated "liberality" in converting the non jewish wife in a case such as yours.<br /><br />besides chabad, there is also http://www.kiruv.com/contactpi.php and numerous other sources. find some org / person you feel comfortable with.MiMedinat HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65274108305839656592012-08-29T23:11:59.691+03:002012-08-29T23:11:59.691+03:00this is a clearer copy of the transcript
http://d...this is a clearer copy of the transcript<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2009/10/rav-reuven-feinsteinkiruv-mixed-couples.html<br /><br />Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-38646562962727765702012-08-29T23:05:15.116+03:002012-08-29T23:05:15.116+03:00See also this article from Jewish Action Magazine
...See also this article from Jewish Action Magazine<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2008/04/unintentioal-intermarriage-jewish.htmlDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-34052196358181150032012-08-29T23:02:57.152+03:002012-08-29T23:02:57.152+03:00the following is a transcript I made of a recordin...the following is a transcript I made of a recording of Rav Reuven Feinstein talking about dealing with intermarried couples. He agrees with Rav Eliashiv and holds that this is the mainstream. I have not heard anything from Rav Sternbuch that he disagress with the approach. All agree that one does not pursue and intermarried couple.<br /><br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/01/rav-reuven-feinstein-prohibits.htmlDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69985829995778268292012-08-29T22:57:34.615+03:002012-08-29T22:57:34.615+03:00http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2008/12/harav-elia...http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2008/12/harav-eliashiv-shilta-kiruv-of.html<br /><br />The objection of Rav Eliashiv as well as the Bedatz was the issue of kiruv for intermarried couples and thus proselytizing the non-Jewish spouse. Rav Eliashiv statement is that traditionally intermarried couples are shunned. He made an exception when dealing with couples/community in which the intermarried couple mistakenly had a Jewish identity.<br /><br />There is a major gap between proslytizing intermarried couples who knew that it was wrong according to halacha and tolerating couples who mistakenly think they are Jewish. <br /><br />The Bedatz was talking about the former while Rav Eliashiv was addressing the latter. <br /><br />It is not clear what would be the position if the couple claimed they didn't realize it was wrong. If you search the archives there is a letter from a Reform Jew who claims that it is well known that intermarriage is a halachic problem.<br /><br />I am not aware of any difference between the view of Rav Eliashiv, the Bedatz, Rav Sternbuch and Rav Reuven Feinstein - i.e, mainstream charedi view. I don't think this differs from the right wing Modern Orthodox view.<br /><br />Do a search in archives for intermarriage<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />rDaas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52246612133219010732012-08-29T21:13:50.673+03:002012-08-29T21:13:50.673+03:00Thank you for commenting. I'm very sorry to he...Thank you for commenting. I'm very sorry to hear about this situation, and I pray that you are able to move to an accepting community and get back on the derech happily as a family. Have you considered renting the house you own and then renting a house for yourselves in a different city? <br /><br />Again, hatzlacha to both you and the letter writer.<br /><br />"Prayer helps for everything. Even if a person is unable to study Torah he will be able to do so if he prays for it. Everything good can be attained through prayer: Torah, devotion, holiness... everything good in all the worlds. Amen." (Likutei Eitzot, Prayer.)yeshayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-31206609047291471512012-08-29T21:02:21.414+03:002012-08-29T21:02:21.414+03:00Rav Eidensohn, but for number 1 you said intermarr...Rav Eidensohn, but for number 1 you said intermarried couples can't participate in kiruv activities. The only rabbonim you have cited as saying that are R' Sternbuch and the Bedatz, who prohibit voting in Israeli elections. The view of R' Elyashiv and R' Feinstein is miles away from the R' Sternbuch/Bedatz view, because because nearly all intermarried couples will tell you they didn't realize it was wrong at the time.yeshayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65363262066159239762012-08-29T19:55:00.506+03:002012-08-29T19:55:00.506+03:00Rav Reuven Feinstein shlita is STILL the halachic ...Rav Reuven Feinstein shlita is STILL the halachic advisor for EJF, which today has a new name - Tiferes Bais Yisrael.Abenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-76204247426495786832012-08-29T19:45:14.491+03:002012-08-29T19:45:14.491+03:00yesha wrote:
Number 1 is right-wing Israeli cha...yesha wrote: <br /><br />Number 1 is right-wing Israeli charedi position -- I've never heard of it outside of that context. To give you (the letter writer) an idea, the same rabbis also rule it is forbidden to vote in Israeli elections.<br /><br />================<br />I was citing Rav Eliashiv who in fact held you should vote in Israeli elections. In addition I cited Rav Reuven Feinstein who is not viewed as an extremist - was in fact the halachic advisor for EJF and is American. Furthermore he hasn't come out against voting in Israeli elections. He asserted that this is the main stream Orthodox view. Daas Torahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84648521218635256702012-08-29T05:11:00.914+03:002012-08-29T05:11:00.914+03:00Number 1 is right-wing Israeli charedi position --...Number 1 is right-wing Israeli charedi position -- I've never heard of it outside of that context. To give you (the letter writer) an idea, the same rabbis also rule it is forbidden to vote in Israeli elections.<br /><br />Number 2 is the position of many left-wing modern orthodox rabbis, who are increasingly being hired as shul rabbis in modern orthodox congregations across America.<br /><br />Number 3 was the view of EJF -- not sure how widespread it is outside of them.<br /><br />Number 4 may be rejected by what the blog author considers mainstream -- that is, the rabbis in number 1 -- but I think this non-judgmental approach is probably the most common position in out of town (outside NYC area) modern orthodox shuls (which tend to be more lenient), and nearly universal among American chabad shluchim.yeshayanoreply@blogger.com