tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post1681617447323349511..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Epstein Torture trial: Declararation of R Breitowitz - is an egregious case of intellectual dishonestyDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-11717007177691373582015-02-26T08:07:20.733+02:002015-02-26T08:07:20.733+02:00I agree completely with you and I enjoy your writi...I agree completely with you and I enjoy your writing. Allow me to quote: “The remnant of<br />Israel Shall do no wrong And speak no falsehood; A deceitful tongue Shall not<br />be in their mouths. Only such as these shall graze and lie down, With none to<br />trouble them” (Zephaniah 3:13).<br /><br />The Malbim explains here “The<br />remnant of Israel Shall do no wrong” in deeds. “And speak no falsehood”<br />in speech. A deceitful tongue<br />Shall not be in their mouths in thoughtful matter. “shall graze and lie<br />down” as in “He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me to<br />a-water in places of repose” (Psalms 23:2). “With none to trouble them”<br />not have need for treaties with nations nor to learn from them.Tefillinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-87454604942608593952015-02-26T04:58:11.799+02:002015-02-26T04:58:11.799+02:00To me it looks clear cut, they have transported ab...To me it looks clear cut, they have transported abductees interstate of which is a Federal Crime, period. The Judge tells the ground rules which laws apply and to consider. Over and out.<br /><br />1034<br /><br />Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction<br /><br />Federal jurisdiction over kidnapping extends to the following situations: <br />(1) kidnapping in which the victim is willfully transported in interstate or <br />foreign commerce;zbengnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32809621361101312772015-02-26T03:24:06.950+02:002015-02-26T03:24:06.950+02:00Not necessarily under federal law. That is up to ...Not necessarily under federal law. That is up to the jury to decide.<br /><br />In a state kidnapping case, you may be right.MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89112009220327393912015-02-26T01:56:23.541+02:002015-02-26T01:56:23.541+02:00@Tefilin - no one is preaching about Epstein - wha...@Tefilin - no one is preaching about Epstein - what they did is clear and why it is a perversion of halacha is also clear. There defense is a further perversion. <br /><br />There is no debate about what is really Torah. They violated clearly stated halacha that any high school student can understand.<br /><br />Whether he was motivated by greed, misplaced idealism, whether he believed the lies of Aguna Inc or whether he helped manufacture the lies - that can be dealt with later. But there is no question right now that he has created a major pervsion of halacha and an incredible chilul hashem. <br /><br />Your final drasha - has nothing to do with Torah - that is clearly not the proper understanding. A man has no obligation to divorce his wife - even if she displease him - as is obvious from the gemora.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10488392973990180822015-02-26T01:45:23.601+02:002015-02-26T01:45:23.601+02:00These are the laws of the land my friend.
The Ju...These are the laws of the land my friend.<br /><br /><br />The Jury will ask whether the WHOLE orchestra was aware of the plot of Kidnapping, did they take any monetary reward or consideration for their part in the plot of the Kidnapping. Would the mission have been accomplished without the pied pipers input, or was it part and parcel of the mission to be accomplished. In Bank Robbery, is only the one moving the goods guilty or the whole team that executed the crime?<br /> ****<br />Generally, kidnapping occurs when a person, without lawful authority, physically asports (i.e.,moves) another person without that other person's consent, with the intent to use the abduction inconnection with some other nefarious objective. Under the Model <br />Penal Code (a set of exemplary criminal rules fashioned by the American Law Institute), kidnapping occurs when any person is unlawfully and non-consensually asported and held for certain purposes. These purposes include gaining a ransom or REWARD; facilitating the commission of a felony or a flightafter the commission of a felony; TERRORIZINIG OR INFLICTING BODILY INJURY on the victim or a third person;and interfering with a governmental or political function (Model Penal Code § 212.1).<br /><br /><br />***It usually occurs in connection with another criminal offense, orunderlying crime. It involves violent deprivation of LIBERTY, and it requires a special criminal boldness.<br /><br /><br />**** the abductor intends to injure the victim; to accomplish or advance the commission of a felony; to terrorize the victim or a third person. RELEVANT, AND HOW!zbengnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84655317194288608972015-02-26T01:09:35.381+02:002015-02-26T01:09:35.381+02:00The position of R. Aharon Soloveichik seems obviou...The position of R. Aharon Soloveichik seems obvious to me. Do you know anyone which disagrees with that? and how they explain their position? I would think that Dina Demalchuta would apply that violance cannot be used and therefore halachically invalidSamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23991315623948577432015-02-26T01:07:02.365+02:002015-02-26T01:07:02.365+02:00The Torah says "A man takes a wife and posses...The Torah says "A man takes a wife and possesses her"<br /><br />Is it than fair to say that the husband is KIDNAPPED in order to extract from him a disposess under duress, threat of bodily harm, or threat of life and death, e.g. "Hang him, Kill Him, Drown Him, Electrocute him and giving him a heart attack??? Do you still think that "Rabbi Epstein is a good man", Hmmm...??? True, the show must go on, but with having all things considered.zbengnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40005092107023226952015-02-26T01:01:00.794+02:002015-02-26T01:01:00.794+02:00It is understood that when the marriage is broken ...It is understood that when the marriage is broken that a get should be given to allow everone to get on with their life, but when you have a guy making a fortune by beating up others then why trust him to decide when fellow man should be beaten ruthlessly.<br />Epstein broke the law endlessly and now when the world is watching he seems to pretend that all he needs to do is to prove that he has done a mitzva which would allow him to break the law.<br /><br />Do you really think that anyone not Jewish is expected to accept that religious Jews are above the law.<br /><br />This man caused already immense reputational damage to all of us. At this point at the very least he must admit his guilt and accept an appropriate punishment.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-66039294373010573322015-02-26T00:08:12.280+02:002015-02-26T00:08:12.280+02:00I only hope, for your sake, that Kishkeyum doesn&#...I only hope, for your sake, that Kishkeyum doesn't get a whiff of this comment.Joseph Orlownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-16511129552696853532015-02-26T00:01:35.233+02:002015-02-26T00:01:35.233+02:00I only hope, for your sake, that Kishkeyum doesn&#...I only hope, for your sake, that Kishkeyum doesn't get a whiff of this comment.Joseph Orlownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-85104728583538498642015-02-25T20:58:34.134+02:002015-02-25T20:58:34.134+02:00True “what they did was a perversion of halacha.” ...True “what they did was a perversion of halacha.” I don’t<br />agree with “But there is an even greater chilul hashem and that is their<br />misrepresenting Torah and halacha in a desperate attempt to justify their<br />criminal acts as a positive religious activity.”<br /><br />Please, don’t preach that Rabbi Epstein is committing a sin<br />in misrepresenting Torah. Let the trial<br />continue and let there be debates on what is really Torah. Our enemies will slander us no matter what we<br />do. Rabbi Epstein is a good man who fell victim to Agunah Inc (see internet). Rabbi<br />Epstein honestly believed the lies of Agunah Inc---that he was helping ladies,<br />deserving his help, angry at their husbands. <br />The real villain here is Agunah Inc.<br /><br />The Torah says A man takes a wife and possesses her. She<br />fails to please him because he finds something obnoxious about her, and he<br />writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it to her, and sends her away from his<br />house (Deut. 24:1). According to the Torah, She fails to please him<br />means that the husband must be willing to divorce his wife. The angry women of<br />Agunah Inc have a problem their husband are not willing to divorce them.Tefillinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52265677760657741052015-02-25T20:48:36.583+02:002015-02-25T20:48:36.583+02:00True “what they did was a perversion of halacha.” ...True “what they did was a perversion of halacha.” I don’t<br />agree with “But there is an even greater chilul hashem and that is their<br />misrepresenting Torah and halacha in a desperate attempt to justify their<br />criminal acts as a positive religious activity.”<br /><br />Please, don’t preach that Rabbi Epstein is committing a sin<br />in misrepresenting Torah. Let the trial<br />continue and let there be debates on what is really Torah. Our enemies will slander us no matter what we<br />do. Rabbi Epstein is a good man who fell victim to Agunah Inc (see internet). Rabbi<br />Epstein honestly believed the lies of Agunah Inc---that he was helping ladies,<br />deserving his help, angry at their husbands. <br />The real villain here is Agunah Inc.<br /><br />The Torah says A man takes a wife and possesses her. She<br />fails to please him because he finds something obnoxious about her, and he<br />writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it to her, and sends her away from his<br />house (Deut. 24:1). According to the Torah, She fails to please him means<br />that the husband must be willing to divorce his wife. The angry women of Agunah<br />Inc have a problem their husband are not willing to divorce them.Tefillinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-12188330845772053422015-02-25T19:06:47.971+02:002015-02-25T19:06:47.971+02:00Just did. Thank you.Just did. Thank you.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-30712823997933479202015-02-25T14:52:19.142+02:002015-02-25T14:52:19.142+02:00AI'm not going to get into the issues you pres...AI'm not going to get into the issues you present other than to point out that the issue for the federal jjury is did they receive payment or other reward from the kidnapping or for the kidnapping.<br /><br />You are arguing halachic issues which re irrelevant to the jury.MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-374784599632220792015-02-25T10:56:10.433+02:002015-02-25T10:56:10.433+02:00you should be able to download nowyou should be able to download nowDaas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-32542071608806355922015-02-25T10:06:56.008+02:002015-02-25T10:06:56.008+02:00@Ari B - your question is if BDA did not hear bot...@Ari B - your question is if BDA did not hear both sides and thus could not issue a psak - but sent a seruv for failure to appear and that is all the seruv says - does that permit a second beis din to pasken - without hearing both sides - that not only does the husband have to give a get but that he can be tortured and his life threatened?!<br /><br />A related question - if in fact BDA had heard both sides and issued a psak that the husband must give a divorce - does that give the right to any three Jews who wish to form a beis din to torture and threaten the life of the husband - without being explicitly requested to do so by the BDA? Or must the beis din that issued the psak specifically authorize the agent of force?Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40902691557577072612015-02-25T09:27:50.075+02:002015-02-25T09:27:50.075+02:00Halachicly there is no way for a beis din to issue...Halachicly there is no way for a beis din to issue a ruling ordering a husband to give his wife a Get unless the beis din first conducted a trial with the husband present (and then determined the halachic basis for ordering an involuntary Get has been met.)Moe Ginsburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-58130812175940039472015-02-25T07:01:07.934+02:002015-02-25T07:01:07.934+02:00Would they be required to hear both sides after th...Would they be required to hear both sides after they have evidence that he refused to appear before an established beis din and that the established beis din issued a siruv on that basis? Ari Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-78162692346260855402015-02-25T05:36:33.434+02:002015-02-25T05:36:33.434+02:00When the ransom is paid upfront to kidnap a person...When the ransom is paid upfront to kidnap a person, no matter who puts up the funds, it is big time kidnapping. The Halacha also stipulates in hilchot pidyon shvuyim, not to pay exorbitant prices, since that only encourages more kidnappings, that is what the goon squad performed divided amongst the HOODS orchestra particpants. Each party of the team works in tandem to accomplish the mission and equally guilty. That is exactly why Ma"hram meRottenburg told his kehilla not to redeem him, and nebach died in prison. BTW, since all these get meusse's are invalid, there is no Mitzva whatsoever, only Aveira lishmah. They all were in it for the MONEY, and nothing else.zbengnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45287450423535370232015-02-25T03:55:07.005+02:002015-02-25T03:55:07.005+02:00What Breitowitz failed to mention is even when we ...What Breitowitz failed to mention is even when we force a GET the woman leaves with nothing. Unfortunately today they strip the man from everything and then beat him up. Ironically, If they would give the man custody and marital assets, you would see how many kosher Gittin would be given right away!fedupwithcorruptrabbisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-16632106647043926752015-02-25T02:10:30.157+02:002015-02-25T02:10:30.157+02:00I'll change it tomorrowI'll change it tomorrowDaas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-90949760553960879002015-02-25T02:06:02.553+02:002015-02-25T02:06:02.553+02:00don't t have them.don't t have them.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-14117668771025787492015-02-25T01:43:59.739+02:002015-02-25T01:43:59.739+02:00I want to share this with someone who does not hav...I want to share this with someone who does not have internet access. But it doesn't seem that there is an option to download and print it on scribd.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45209890025193700042015-02-25T01:05:12.372+02:002015-02-25T01:05:12.372+02:00Can you post the BDA seruv and the certified recei...Can you post the BDA seruv and the certified receipts?MiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-40754774728633461872015-02-25T01:01:44.431+02:002015-02-25T01:01:44.431+02:00I am now on my way back home from trenton, and can...I am now on my way back home from trenton, and can shed light on certain issues.<br /><br />The stimler issue is different from the other defendants, cause stimler is not part of the kidnapping conspiracy, but part of the forcing, according to the indictment.<br /><br />According to federal law, kidnapping is only a crime if it is for monetary gain or other reward. Nat lewin (who only represents stimler) is arguing that religious motivation is not a monetary gain or other reward (but a "mitzvah") and therefore he should be allowed to present that fact and evidence to the jury (besides the fact that he was not paid for the kidnapping; to quote Nat lewin, h"e was only being paid like a lawyer," bupkis.)<br /><br />He was not being paid by the victim (or the victim's family, like a "traditional" kidnapping Thus its not a kidnapping, but an extortion, which he is not being charged with. Or assault, which is not a federal offense (in this , like a "traditional" kidnappingMiMedinat_HaYamnoreply@blogger.com