Wednesday, February 15, 2017

Rav Gestetner: ORA - the real creators of Agunas

The Real Creators Of "Agunas" Are The Notorious Hoodlums Of ORA (English Translation)

In regards to the dismal Kin-Ralbag affair, in which rabbis put out 'seruvs' against the husband, Mr. Yisroel Meir Kin(preventing him from entering shuls), even though he did everything according to bais din, and his name was vilified all over the world on the internet, mainly by the notorious gang of evildoers known as ORA, all of this having encouraged his wife Chaya Lonna not to agree to come to bais din according to the inherent halachic framework.

And that is what caused the husband (on 3 Adar II 5768) to deposit a get according to bais din's instruction at the Bais Din Kedushas Levy of Monsey, New York; and since she ignored (according to ORA's advice) the bais din's call for her to come to them to receive her get (according to their instruction), that is what caused the necessity to grant the husband permission to remarry with a Heter Meah Rabbonim, and that is what he did.

And It is obvious that to persecute an upstanding man that did everything according to bais din, and to smear him in public, just in order to boss him around and to deprive him of the right that every Jew has: To contact a rov or bais din of his choice with any problem he may have; and more than that, they have done so without any sources to justify their approach, at the very same time that the bais din that he chose did indeed provide sources to justify their own position (see the bais din records: transcript 1025, 1072), is a miscarriage of justice that cries out to the heavens, and it's a sin that has no atonement.

And now, after almost eight years have passed since the husband deposited the get for her, without her even once contacting the bais din with a request to receive the get (this is what the ORA jokers call an "aguna" today.., making a complete mockery of this grave concept), she finally realized that she wouldn't be receiving anything tangible through any of ORA's bully tactics against her husband. She contacted us (on 3 Elul, 5775) and asked, what does she have to do in order to receive the get that was deposited for her, and we answered her: That until such time that all the "seruvs," defamations, and alienations are removed from the husband without any obligation on his part, and shall thus remain for a prolonged, unlimited period of time, it is forbidden according to the inherent halachic framework to begin to discuss anything, and we had thus ruled to the husband according to the words of our holy Torah: That it is forbidden for him to trip her with a null and void "get meusa." To that she answered us: That ORA won't agree to it! (And the wife said this also to the Av Bais Din of Kedushas Levy), and I replied to her: That their disagreeing won't do anything to change the halacha..., and after that we did not hear a peep out of her! (And we told this to a number of "askanim" who contacted us with the above question), and there was dead silence!

So you see that although ORA knows that according to our ruling it is forbidden for the husband to cave in to their pressure, and although they know that through their refusal to remove the slander against the husband, they are causing the wife to remain an "aguna," nevertheless they refuse to stop because of their bias and fear that it will become known that they didn't accomplish anything, and that they didn't care whatsoever about "setting her free."

The time has come already for the public to see for themselves and decide who is responsible for this misfortune; the time has come already for people to open their eyes and realize the hypocrisy of these two-faced evildoers known as ORA, that is being led by the bully and thug Jeremy Stern, who is making a living and waxing fat off of his hooliganism and false propaganda all over the world, in an effort to portray his gang as the "savior and redeemer who is setting women free." When in reality, the truth is exactly the opposite: That they themselves are the creators of those "agunas" and not the husbands; because you see, they have demonstrated that due to their "victory" complex they are preventing women from becoming free.

And all of this is besides for the stumbling block of gittin that are meusa, which are obtained from husbands through shaming and demonstrations, that cause her to remain a married woman, and her children from the second husband to be mamzeirim (not any less than if she remarries without a get at all as in the Friedman-Epstein affair, but that is for another time).

And let it be known that this case is just one of many in which we delved into the matter, and we saw clearly that had ORA, who advises women to insist on their positions, not been involved, the parties would have reached a compromise and concluded their affairs early, either towards peace or towards a get; and they would have spared the couple and the children many years of great misery and anguish, and they are the inhibitors.

In summation, the ORA gang are the real destroyers of women; that their main focus is achieving their "win" even if it comes at the expense of the distress and the chaining of women, for they don't care about that at all; woe is to them on the day of judgement and on the day of reproach; they have chained many women, they have grieved many couples, many have left the fold on their account, many children went down the tubes materially and spiritually on their account.

And Chazal have said: "A mouse is not a thief, rather the hole is a thief," and until there is public protest against those enablers and supporters who encourage them to continue with their evil deeds, this breach that diminishes every good share in Klal Yisroel will not be repaired, G-d forbid.

To the above we sign our name, and in the name of the associates of the Bais Din Shimru Mishpot on the 21st day of Shevat, 5776.

Avrohom Shmuel Yehuda Gestetner
Av Bais Din Shimru Mishpot

28 comments:

  1. FedupwithcorruprabbisFebruary 15, 2017 at 4:16 PM

    Rumors have it that Lonna Kin doesnt want to go to Rabbi Gestetner's Bais din to pick up her GET but has instead followed in Tamar Epstein's footsteps and got an anullment thru the bais din of Ronnie Warburg and Simcha Krauss. (International Beit Din http://www.internationalbeitdin.org) Apparently ORA has been advising women against picking up a GET unless the process favors the woman 100% and the man 0%. They would rather the woman have a "fake" anullment than to pick up a kosher Get that would allow her to remarry without any problems. As the next DT article states," More women in Israel refuse to pick up a Get than the men are refusing to deliver them a GET."

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  2. Rav Gestetner, please can you share with us the heter meah rabbonim that I understand was issued through your bais din to "allow" Meir Kin to remarry?

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  3. What's there to share? It's simply a piece of paper stating nothing more than that the husband is permitted to take a second wife. And signed.

    It's only relevant to permitting the second keddushin. Once that is completed the paper can be discarded.

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  4. It would be helpful for people on this blog to understand more about Gittin and the ranging opinions on this subject. Here is one such work http://www.rabbis.org/pdfs/Gray_Matter.pdf

    Halacha is not always absolute. Throughout many areas there are differences of opinion where each can be equally valid. Even different Botai Din can have differences in how they interpret Halacha.

    For one side, with one Bais Din, to say that "this is the immovable Halacha" when others disagree, is not intellectually honest and doesn't get anyone anywhere.

    It is so sad that there is no respect for other talmidei chachomim who hold a different, but equally valid, Halachic position.

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  5. He won't because it is none of the public's business as explained numerous times to you from this article by Margaret Retter, Esq.:
    "Although this document is expected to be kept confidential, it often times falls into the hands of the public, causing the woman embarrassment, shame, and ostracism within her community, especially, since it requires 100 rabbinical signatures; and she refuses to accept a get in her apparent attempt to block the husband from remarrying, and yet she is legally capable of accepting the get, the Beis Din should investigate this matter as well." (http://kol-isha.org/2016/09/15/dispensation-of-a-hundred-rabbis-heter-meah-rabbonim/)

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  6. Hi I am an example of a victim of ora I will tell my stor an you be the judge last j uly my wife started divorce thru family and supreme court after multiple motions I pleaded with my wife to see rabbonim so we can get an obtective opinion on divorce well as all yeas I fly to Israel for a children's hospital fund raiser and bycicle ride for five days the day if my flight I received an email from a rabbi shochat from ORA requesting an hazmana immediately I responded that I am on the way to Israel in 1 hr to raise funds for a hospital and as soon as I returned I would appear with my wife not knowing who this was and he responded. "Acknowledged " well you can imagine when I was leaving Israel they stopped me and said I must see the rabbis now mind you 1)I still live at home and2) I was returning to my wife and family
    So the Israel rabbi showed me a letter from this rabbi shochat! !!!and it said shockingly that I ran away from my house and that I do not live at home two complete lies!!! This letter is what made the rabbis in Israel stop me!!! Well it's no surprise that the rabbis are in fact not rabis just unlawful vigilantes so I completely agree with this article I only hope that klal Yisrael can protect itself from the hooligans

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  7. Hi! This is what I sent today to the NYS Court of Appeals:

    “3. I did what every Jew has a full right to do, to request his wife and children to join him in a move from NY to Israel. Of course, Susan has every right to refuse and to demand a divorce. Susan initiated proceedings for the get. I asked the rabbis in Jerusalem what should I do? They advised me to send the get to Susan to see if she would accept the get. There never was need for Susan's many court actions. Susan had no legitimate purpose for her court actions. My coming to the August 1992 court hearing holding a present for Susan and holding 22 copies of reconciliation letters I sent her from Israel---blocked Susan from proving her false charge of abandonment. At the 8/1/2013 Inquest Susan and Myla Serlin repeated the false charge of abandonment. What was Susan's purpose? To win scratching my name from Brooklyn property records, to win 55% of my pension, and maybe now to garnish my social security.

    4.Susan had and still has no legitimate purpose in any of her court stuff against me. Susan is a well-known supporter/activist of Mendel Epstein et al and similar organizations, all highly profitable, which all have no legitimate purposes. Their aim is for women to boss their husbands. Their aim is for divorce on demand, the merely saying I hate him. They lie and commit true criminal perjury and criminal bribing judges and criminal falsifying documents.

    5. The public must know that Mendel Epstein and similar organizations such as ORA are hypocrites and evil, They use NYS divorce laws to further their ends---to show that the woman is the boss. They use illegal means in the courts. If the NYS Court of Appeals accepts my case for review, this will bring reduce such illegal/shameful activity. This is much like the 10-year jail sentence to Mendel Epstein stops the heinous beating of husbands. These are husbands largely exercising rights every Jew has, to refuse to divorce his wife merely on her demand.”

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  8. There are many who have argued that rav Gestetner and his bais din is an example of Rabbis being unlawful vigilantes.

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  9. Clearly (as discussed previously at length), you don't agree with most of the other content on that web page, so not sure it is fair to cherry pick one or two sentences that you happen to agree with and take it out of context.

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  10. We have discussed this at length. Given the enormous cost in procuring a heter meah rabbonim, it seems unlikely that a purchaser would simply chuck it away when it may be necessary as evidence later (schooling, Shul membership, children's shidduchim etc).

    If someone doesn't actually have a heter meah rabbonim, one would expect them to make excuses as to why they are unable to present it.

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  11. "I have in my hand a list of a 1000 communist members or fellow travelers"

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  12. Despite your assumptions, there's no need to ever present it on any occasion other than at the time of marriage/keddushin. And the officiating Rov testifying that there was a HMR is more than sufficient.

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  13. You, the biggest cherry picker of this whole blog, are accusing me of cherry picking? LOL, HAHAHAHA!!!

    If you weren't so pathetic in your obsession to see something that is absolutely none of your business you would be an even bigger laugh. The fact that someone like Ms. Retter, an opponent of Heter Meah Rabbonim in cases like this, feels the Heter should NOT be made public shoots your repeated demand to see Kin's HMR full of holes.

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  14. And as we have discussed at length it is not the right of every Tom, Dick & Monty to see a private document.

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  15. Are you asking him to share something with you? Do you realize he doesn't really frequent this blog?

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  16. A divorce document is also destroyed right after it's given. You could ask the same question. But you're not, you're only asking about Mr. Kin.
    Agenda much?

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  17. Talking about respect, when was the last time the ORA gava Rav Gestetner's any respect at all? They call him an ignoramus and the thug. I was at a protes by the ora against Mr Kin, they had no kind words for the rabbi or his bais din.

    Requesting that the wife subject herself to normative halocha , without relying on controversial advances in Jewish law, isn't wrong. On the contrary, those trying to change the rules should come up with their excuses why they are valid.
    "It is so sad that there is no respect for other talmidei chachomim who hold a different, but equally valid, Halachic position."

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  18. Forget about ORA, how do you think other Batei Dinim view his Beis Din?

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  19. Who is Rabbi Schochet of ORA?

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  20. Hagalach, based on your comment I understand that if the husband's posek or beis din said he has no obligation or reason to give a Get you will support him following that psak even if his wife's rabbi says he must give a Get, correct?

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  21. How do you think other butei dinim view the Beth Din of America. Many view them not too kindly and consider there rulings to be suspect of being kneged halacha.

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  22. Perhaps Monty will challenge divorced women's status as really being divorced unless she produces a public copy of her alleged Get.

    Y'never know... ;-)

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  23. Rumours? Are rumours valid halachic eidus?
    Do you have any stronger evidence?

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  24. Monty get real.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14671&st=&pgnum=65&hilite=

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  25. https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-pick-for-ambassador-to-israel-recants-harsh-attacks-slurs-1487286110?tesla=y
    “Appearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, bankruptcy lawyer David Friedman repeatedly expressed regret for comparing liberal Jewish groups to Nazi collaborators, for characterizing then-President Barack Obama’s views as anti-Semitic, and for disparaging Sen. Al Franken (D., Minn.) as a “moron.”

    “From my perspective, the inflammatory rhetoric that accompanied the presidential campaign is entirely over, and, if I am confirmed, you should expect my comments will be respectful and measured,” Mr. Friedman told senators during his confirmation hearing.There is no excuse,” he said at one point when asked about disparaging Democratic politicians. “If you want me to rationalize it or justify it, I cannot. These were hurtful words, and I deeply regret them. They are not reflective of my nature or my character.”
    This is how Mendel Epstein should write to the appeal court, e.g.:
    Pacer 2/8/2017: “They’re caught -- Mr. -- Rabbi Epstein is caught on tape saying “we’re basically going to kidnap a guy, torture him for a couple of hours, and force him to give a Get.” And that’s what I do when I’m wearing my criminal hat. There’s other times I put on my rabbinical hat. There really wasn’t anywhere for him to go with respect to the conspiracy charge in this case once that tape went into evidence. And so what they did is, starting with their openings, they said these are all very devout men, out of Court, and there’s no dispute that they are devout Orthodox Jews. And they said these men who aren’t giving their wives a Get are scoundrels. Why aren’t they letting -- why aren’t they freeing their wives to remarry? Are they extorting money from them? Are they being reprehensible?”
    Mendel Epstein must express regret, as did David Friedman. My suggestion:
    I deeply regret. There is no excuse for my kidnapping and beating the recalcitrant husbands. I recognize now that under Orthodox Jewish law a man has every right to refuse to grant a get to his wife who is demanding it, unless the bet din orders the man to give her a get. I cannot rationalize and justify my behavior. I did hurtful actions and I deeply regret them. They are not reflective of my nature or my character.
    Rabbi Ralbag needs also to express regret: Pacer 2/8/2017: “JUDGE CHAGARES: Well, some of the chief evidence against him was by Rabbi Ralbag, right?”
    Rabbi Schechter needs also to express regret: “Rabbi Jachter testified in Mr. Stimler’s case-in-chief and he testified about a number of important aspects of Halachic law that were relevant to this case having to do with the Get and what you need in order to get a Kosher Get.”

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  26. I don't know about rav G, but vigilantism is, by definition ORA.

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  27. just watch this and see for yourself, warning what you will see is SHOCKING
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIxnmiA8BaI

    it is important to watch the whole thing, absolutely SHOCKING

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  28. what, how could a Menuval be on the wrong side of this case?

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