Guest Post from a concerned friend of the Weiss Family
This letter is far more important than one may think
Rav Shmuel writes that “as of two weeks ago, serious negotiations have been underway to resolve the Weiss-Dodelson, dispute” and therefore the “public smear campaign against the Weiss family...should cease and desist. It is unacceptable."
Weiss supporters are delighted that Rav Shmuel has taken a public stance after he and his son Rav Sholom have over the past two weeks experienced first hand how the Dodelsons “negotiate in good faith."
But what does this letter really say?
It says that although there is no formal binding arbitration taking place, so long as there are serious negotiations, the Weisses may not be attacked. Certainly Rav Shmuel is not suggesting that the Dodelsons may unilaterally disrupt the negotiations and resume their “smear campaign”; if he were saying that his letter would merely be a tool to encourage the breakdown of negotiations. No one would accuse him of that.
But what if “serious negotiations” were actually taking place earlier? It would seem that Rav Shmuel’s denouncement of the smear campaign would apply to that time, too.
There is ample email documentation of ongoing interaction between the Dodelson’s lawyers and other representatives with Rabbi Greenwald from June through mid-October showing that “serious negotiations” were, in fact taking place. All the while, the Dodelsons were engaged in an extensive “smear campaign,” including establishing numerous websites, doing mailings, and hiring a public relations.
Then, in mid-October the process was unilaterally scuttled by the Dodelsons, and their New York Post story trashing the frum community and their Newsweek story attacking halachah ran.
But the truth is, even a year ago the two sides went to Rav Yaakov Bender, but he was pressured by the Dodelsons to withdraw from arbitrating the case. Maybe Rav Shmuel’s psak should start back then.
The bottom line is that Rav Shmuel’s letter seems to support Rav Dovid Feinstein’s psak.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWhat do negotiations have to do with giving a get when the marriage is so obviously nonredeemable? It takes five minutes to deposit the get. Then take as much time as you want to "negotiate".
ReplyDeleteWhat do negotiations have to do with giving a get when the marriage is so obviously nonredeemable? It takes five minutes to deposit the get. Then take as much time as you want to "negotiate".
DeleteSounds good. One problem though. The Shulhan Arukh says it needs to happen the other way around. Everything needs to be settled and then a Get is given.
Rabbi Tzadok - the traditional method of "settling" as I understand it is for the man to pay the ketubah.
DeleteYitz: Halachicly, there is much more to settling end-of-marriage arrangements (custody, assets distribution, etc.) than just paying the kesuba.
DeleteAll of that needs to be finalized before the Get is issued.
@R. Tzadok - "Everything needs to be settled and then a Get is given" - That's a very important point you made. I believe you're correct, at least as far as Ashkenazim, the REMAH states that in Evan HaEzer, Seder HaGet.
DeleteI believe the concept of "SEFER KRISUS" as referring to the resolution of all issues is mentioned in other SEFORIM. If an alleged "SEFER KRISUS" is written, but the ex-spouses continue fighting in court for years, where is the "KRISUS"?
Do you know if the Sephardi POSKIM also state that in Evan HaEzer?
I am unfamiliar with the sources. It seems to me that there are two separate questions here.
DeleteFirst, assuming AMW is a mesarev ledin, which is what Rav Shmuel's original letter (the kol kore) was based on, what halachic actions can be taken against AMW? His family? Active supporters? It seems from the language of the document from the bais din and from the kol kore that extreme measures are allowed against all of these parties just for refusing to go to bais din. (I know it has been a matter of dispute if AM was really a mesarev or not, that's not my question.) Hypothetically, if someone is really a mesarev, let's say not in a get case, but in a regular monetary case, are the measures which were taken in this case halachically sanctioned?
Second, what makes someone a meagen? Is it only when no discussion and or negotiation is going on? Does the husband need to be ordered by a bais din to give the get and then refuse? Or is he a meagen even when matters are still in dispute and he is waiting for them to be settled? If the latter is true, what constitutes a valid dispute? If something is already settled in court, and he wants to change the settlement because he feels halachically he has a right to ask for additional items, is he then not a meagen? If he feels this way and there is no discussion between the parties, is he then a meagen? Is he only a meagen if it can be proven to a bais din that he is holding out on a get only to punish her? And as a second point to this question, what exactly is allowed to be done to a meagen (not what would we LIKE to do to a meagen)?
I am looking for some information based on real halachik sources, preferably with maareh mekomos. I am not looking for answers based on emotional standpoints. I think it is important to clarify these items before we can hope to understand the various statements and letters we have seen in this or any case from our gedolim. Without this information I know that at least in my case I don't even have the tools to properly understand these messages. I suspect it's not just me.
Mr. Clueless:
Delete1) The siruv (assuming you even hold it has any validity) was ONLY for not going to Beis Din to respond to the allegation that he used arkoyos (secular court) on the custody issue. It has nothing to do about giving a Get. So to resolve theatsiruv (again assuming it is a valid siruv altogether) against him, Weiss only needs to respond to the Beis Din case against him and explain why he is in arkoyos and remove himself from arkoyos. Once the arkoyos (secular court) case is closed, and he explains that to the Beis Din, the siruv against him (even if it were ever valid) is gone.
2) Someone is a "meagen" if, and only if, a Beis Din case with both parties present was heard and that Beis Din ruled that the husband is halachicly obliged to give a Get, and the husband then fails to give a Get despite the Beis Din order for him to give a Get.
In this case, a) there never even was a case from any party ever brought to Beis Din demanding a Get b) there never was a Beis Din case (hearing) with both parties present where a Get was demanded and c) there was never any ruling by any Beis Din that the husband is halachicly obligated to give a Get.
Therefore no one ever could even allege (and from all the noise in this case I've never heard it even alleged) that Weiss is a "meagen".
Do you know if the Sephardi POSKIM also state that in Evan HaEzer?
DeleteMy derekh limud is that of the Ben Ish Hai and Kaf HaChaim, in which we are choshesh on the Rema except when there are exceptional circumstances.
Rav Mordekhai Eliyahu and Rav Ovadia Hedayya both ruled that all matters need to be settled. I haven't checked Rav Ovadia Yosef in a while, and he has a different derekh limud so I can't say for certain. However if I am not much mistaken the Maran Karo in the Beit Yosef and Shulhan Arukh states plainly that the writing and giving of the Get is Gamar HaDin. Which means that all dispute related to this issue must be finished.
Everything was settled when he decided to go to secular court and lost. The divorce is final.
Delete1) Even if someone goes to arkaos (secular court), any secular court judgement is irrelevant and not final. Even if arkaos ruled in favor or against the party bringing the arakos case, according to halacha it must be reversed and decided by beis din in accordance with halacha.
Delete2) The only issue decided in secular court was custody. There are other outstanding issues that are still not resolved. Thus halachicly all issues must be resolved prior to a Get being issued.
3) There is no "divorce". A secular divorce is meaningless and an irrelevant piece of paper rag that has no status or meaning either in beis din or in the halachos of gittin.
DeleteThe bunsa bayis has no binah. If they can't negotiate while they are supposedly waiting for something they want how do you think they would negotiate when they have everything. This is big. I was a semi-dodelson supporter but I see now the lies I have been treated to. Just this past weekend, my cousin got another mailing where it mentions nothing about this. Just a smear campaign. I find it interesting that the letter is in English and not Hebrew. Its as though rabbi kaminetzky is targeting an English speaking audience. I i think the dodelsons should just be quiet here. They did their damage. From here on in I think it will just hurt them. Foncused , I need your help here.
ReplyDeleteWithholding a get is only intended for the purposes of shalom bayis, as in when the marriage still has potential. Withholding a get was NEVER intended to work for the advantage of one party in the dissolution of a marriage.
DeleteBunsa, AMW has the right to do this to make sure his rights don't get trampled on. He already has spent almost half a million dollars because Gital is dragging things out. He has every right to make sure his rights are not ignored. If Gital really wanted her get she would work with him ASAP and not be so obstinate about compromising. Plus, as of now one of the signatures of her "Kol Koreh" is telling her to back off her smear campaign yet there is no mention of it on her facebook page. They are going full force ahead to get AMW kicked out of kollel!
DeleteIf anyone is witholding anything, it is her. She has no difficulties in paying up her dues. AMW is not witholding, it simply didn't get to the get point yet. Get it? Krisus cannot happen while you are still entangled with cutting all the loose ends, that includes from A 2 Z.
DeleteWe the people, the sympathizers of kvod haTorah velomdeha feel the pain of a Sefer Torah Hasharui betzaar 'al loy ovel bekapom'. R' Dovid clearly stated that negotiations ARE going on, have been going on and if and when stalled, they kept on trying, faithfully, seriously be'emes uvtomim, in good faith, time and again, again and again. I would highly suggest to stop playing around with words, painting half lies with blatant lies, it will not further your cause one iota. Furthermore, any 'bar bei rav lechad yoma' understands, that to cease and desist of smear campaigns, if all it takes is to negotiate "seriously", indeed, THAT has been going on NOT only for the past two weeks, it's been there since Adam. Elo may? It seems that as R' Dovid quoted from the beginning, that while negotiating, it is not a MEAGEN, no kol kore, no siruv, lo dubim, velo ya'ar velo klum. It is only more palatable to concede in such manner bederech kavod e.g. Avner to Asahel, Shmuel to Shaul, it is still acceptable ved"al. If and when negotiations stalled, it was no fault of AMW, see it as one is firefighting in putting out the flames, comes the other party and wrestles out the hose from the firefighter, would you accuse the firefighter of not seriously fighting the flames. It takes TWO to tango, and if the horse neither wants to drink, let alone even come to the well, how can you NEGOTIATE? As for this blog, it is WE THE PEOPLE that can proudly say yadeinu lo shafcha et hadam haze! We did not stand idly by, we did not sit beozlat yad when Kvod Shamayim, Kvod haTorah, Kvod Am Yisrael is being trampled upon WHOLESALE, Breish chutzot, uBereish gli, leinei kol hoamim, vein potze peh umtzaftzef. Shomu Shamayim! Lemaan Kvod haShomayim lo echshe, ulmaan Kvod haTorah lo eshkot, veal do ani ko boichinah. Harosh kelev anachnu? Al ken lo yechratz kelev leshono mehayom voholoh. Le the responsible parties work it out privately, without our need coming in for their defence. V'H' yevarech et amo baShalom! Have all a great chanukah!
Deleteאבנר ועשהאל? לא יחרץ כלב לשונו ? יהללוך זר ולא פיך נכרי ואל שפתיך. אלקי נשמה שנתת בי טהורה היא. What are you talking about ? All the בעלי מחלוקות who are alive always pin their מחלוקת on דבר תורה. They all can quote psukim. The question is, who is right and who is wrong. It is obvious to any בר בי רב of YU, that the Weisses are in the right halachically. The question here is only whether there is a fifth שולחן ערוך that should be followed. ORA and the cattleprodders are well into the sixth שולחן ערוך, without knowing too much about the first 4. I think that יקוב הדין את ההר may not always be the way to handle situations. I think אמתא דבי רבי, knew that a גט could have been given here years ago. To have a woman wait for a get as she ages, and lose the ability to have kids, is something painful that most women can relate to. To have her remain in that situation long term is unhealthy and something most women won't be able/want to live with. Hence the רמב״ם, שלא יהיו בנות ישראל הפקר. We are כופין. Of course not the הלכה למעשה. Yet the sympathy for the woman here is something not to discount. Is there a reason that the woman should be tested unnecessarily ? Who knows ? I hear both sides. If it was my sister, I would definitely not be כופה. I would be tested though.
DeleteThe "5th" Shulchan Aruch can never override the first four.
DeleteS"A says that a Get is the last part of the divorce process after all other issues have been resolved. All other issues have not been resolved in this case and thus, per S"A, a Get is not yet warranted.
It should be noted that the Dodelson-hired Shira Dicker Public Relations hit-campaign is continuing unabated as we speak. The Anti-Weiss FACEBOK page managed and run by Shira Dicker on behalf of the Dodelson's continues to publish and attack the Weiss family every day.
ReplyDeleteSee https://www.facebook.com/FreeGital
Dr. Lake,
DeleteDon't hold your breath
It should be noted that as of now their last post was November 29. In addition ... the page does not ATTACK weiss. It only requests supportive means to get the GET. THIS site in particular publishes more articles on the Dodelson/Weiss case allowing for heated vitriol on both sides more than that facebook page.
DeleteIt is not clear if Shira Dicker is working for free or as you say, "hired." I am not sure that makes a difference to your argument. I just want to be clear about the facts.
DeletePer Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky shlita's above letter, Dodelson is obliged to order their Public Relations firm to take down the Facebook page and the website they're using to attack the Weiss'.
DeleteThose sites should have been offline since November 29th and yet they are not.
Yerachmiel:
DeleteShira Dicker (who is either a Reform or Conservative Jewess) was interviewed by the media shortly after Gital Dodelson's New York Post article was published (Dicker got the NY Post to look at the Weiss/Dodelson dispute and publish Gital's PR article) and Dicker acknowledged -- when specifically asked -- that she was a hired hand.
Lament,
DeleteI used to think that you were just wrong.
Now I see that you are totally krum as a pretzel.
You don't recognize that the FB and setgitalfree are part of the smear campaign ?
Freddie - re-read what I wrote, and ad hominems don't help your argument when you are trying to refute a site that you think "smears" people. Speak nicely.
DeleteThe facebook page and web page have up until now under the kol koreh been trying to do what it can to attain a GET for Gital. They have been REFUTING statements made by other sources that try to support AM and they have been calling for boycots and action against family members of AM. None of THAT is a smear. One can make the argument that Gital's NY post article was the "smear" that shared her personal feelings about AM's "character". The two sites relaying after that that AM has yet to give the GET is not a smear .. it is FACT ... just like a seruv. Now - random people OPINING on those sites and this one may be "smearing" each side at this point. I mean - someone here JUST implied directly to me that Gital is not allowing AM to have a meaningful relationship with his son. That is a random person's continued smear on an available forum I refer to ... it goes both ways.
Lament - let's stick to what Rabbi Kaminetsky said.
DeleteHe said there is a smear campaign against the Weiss's that falsely claims it has his support. That campaign should stop, it is not supported by him and it is unacceptable.
What smear campaign has claimed that he has approved it? Note he mentioned nothing of a smear campaign against the Dodelson's
It is clear to the rest of us what he was referring to - why don't you understand it?
Lament,
DeleteDid my ad hominem attack hurt your feelings ? Oh, I am so sorry.
Maybe now you feel 1 billionth of what any objective person feels like when browsing Gitals Facebook page and having thousands of people putting down the Weisses and family.
Maybe you now know what it means when the Dodelson side disgraces the memory of R' Moshe Feinstein by bringing in his name to this situation.
Maybe you now know that a smear campaign causes tremendous embarrassment and pain.to people who do not deserve it and are not part of the whole get process, but are simple bystanders..
DT - please do as you say and STICK to what Rabbi Kaminetzky said.
DeleteHe wrote in his letter - as of 2 weeks ago there is serious negotiations going on and( he is concerned the) PUBLIC smear campaign CONTINUES with his support. I never implied he said that the smear campaign is AGAINST dodelson .. I said that followed by the fact that he is only referencing what was brought to HIS attention. Please, sell me a bridge before you sell me that some Weiss sympathizer or Weiss family member was not the one who approached him and failed to say there is PUBLIC smear still going back and forth. In the meantime YOU bring up what has occurred BEFORE 2 weeks ago as if it is relevent to what Rav K writes NOW. It is not. The whole point of a Kol Koreh is that someone was asked to come before BD and did not and is refusing to resolve a matter - so Rav K rightfully put his name on the kol koreh that since no movement was happening she can make a public plea. She did. Things actually happened because of it that may in fact have put some pressure back on Weisses and supposedly NOW according to Rav K they are negotiating and so his Kol Koreh is not applicable if in fact AM is currently coming forward to negotiate. Everything you wrote is MOOT. So don't tell me I am not sticking to what Rabbi K said. It is you, my friend. As I said, you are perpetuating the problem, creating a forum for more smearing on BOTH sides (the both is my words). Just like with Rabbi Greenwald .. I bet in a matter of days there will be a new letter by Rabbi K when someone from the Dodelson side explains the bigger picture to him.
Chilul Hashem against Torah, kvod haTorah, Das Moshe veYisrael, Das Moshe veYehudis, is independent of negotiations. This only tells you what Rishus and how vicious OhRA miSYaVnim organisation are, as well as all the others that spread the smear and smear the spread, regardless of negotiations. This now begs the question of, Ma nishtana halaylah haze mikol haleilos of negotiations? Were those negotiations not serious? Were they not in good faith? And when is shem Shamayim chas veshalom expendable for that matter? This is something very serious and very tragic that has being going on for far too long. We can also learn a LEKACH, that the tendency for gangs to take sides during process of a GET is a Machlokes K -ORA- CH v'eidosoi shelo leshem shamayim, venimtza shem shamayim mischalell. It should be a PRIVATE matter and to be resolved internally, since no one of the outside is privileged to know all the numerous details in any which case, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as we have seen in these discussions chadoshim labkorim. With every little additional detail that has been revealed, the house built of a deck of cards only yesterday fell apart, of which is to rejuvinate the Migdal Dor Haflaga of tomorrow, venimtza maaseh SATAN hitzliach. The concept of ORA is RA leShamayim veRA labriyos, and no one should contemplate on a prospect that has utilised their services, and they should cease and desist from off the face of the earth ysv. That shall also minimize the mamzerim beYisrael of a GET MeUsse. Veoz shokat ha'aretz arbaim shana, vehakol yavo al mekomo beShalom.
ReplyDeleteThe reason this letter was written in English, since it is targeted against the spread and the smear that has been smeared and spread by all the rags in English, possibly a little too little and a little too late, vay al deabdin.
Far too little far too late. What about Aharon Friedman?
ReplyDeleteStan there are better questions that you are not asking. Why haven't Rav Brisman, the Av Beit Din of Philadelphia and musmakh of Rav Shach or Rav Aharon Felder, musmakh of Rav Moshe Feinsten and chaver of B"D of Philadelpha supported Rav Shmuel in any of these dealings.
DeleteSince Rav Shmuel is a permanent member(now at least) of the Philadelphia B"D why were neither of these cases heard there? Why did he have to form an ad hoc Beit Din?
You tug on that loose thread long and hard enough and a lot of things will come unraveled.
huh? Machon Lehoraa is not an ad hoc BD.
DeleteThe ad hoc BD of Friedman was formed because Belsky inserted himself on Friedman's side! Both parties agreed to his negotiations. There was no need for another BD.
Re: Dodelson - Machon Lehoraa has and had no jurisdiction over this case as Machon Lehoraa is in Monsey and neither of the parties are in Monsey and both parties did not accept Machon Lehoraa's jurisdiction.
DeleteRe: Friedman - Both sides did not agree to Rav Belsky. Both sides DID originally agree to the Baltimore beis din and then subsequently Epstein unilaterally pulled out.
No need for another Beis Din? Epstein and Friedman brought the matter to the Baltimore Beis DIn, which heard the case with the participation of both parties and did not rule that a get should be given. The parties never agreed to bring the matter to be adjudicated by Rabbi Belsky or the Union of Orthodox Rabbis.
DeleteThe Union of Orthodox Rabbis functioned as a kangaroo court in the Epstein-Friedman case. It did not even purport to follow any form of procedure, never bothering to issue even a single hazmana (summons) to Friedman, and started immediately with a "hasra'ah acharona" (final warning) demanding that Friedman give a get.
From Beis Din Shar Hamishpat:
DeleteRabbi Belsky’s letters: The glaring flip-flopping from his signature on the Seruv against the husband, in complete contradiction to what he himself wrote earlier that the husband cannot be required to give a get before custody has been resolved properly - screams out to the heart of the heavens. And what he had said to the husband when he was approached for an explanation about this matter: he can’t remember signing the Seruv… and even if he had done so it wasn’t done in a serious manner but under pressure… This is even more troubling than the first, and frightening. This is a “game” he plays to besmirch and embarrass a person and cause him pain and suffering – known by our sages to equal murder. Is this a matter of a game and clowning around by saying, “I did not do this with seriousness”? (Note there are additional cases known to us in which he acted in a similar manner: that he started off supporting the husband and afterwards bowed to pressure and reversed himself.)
www.friedmanepstein.com
From Beis Din Shar Hamishpay
DeleteThe Beis Din of Agudas Harabanim: Is it heard of that a Beis Din begins its judicial process with a “final warning” without sending even a single hazmana [summons]? And in particular in a case in which the parties have not signed a shtar beirurin with that Beis Din? What authority do they have calling him a “Sarvan” when the Beis Din before which the parties signed a shtar beirurin has not required the giving of a get and has not issued any decision, and has not issued a seruv against the husband? We are astonished.
This letter is truly unfortunate. For Rabbi Kamenetsky to write this, with zero mention of the Kol Koreh to which his signature is attached, shows that he may sadly be in over his head.
ReplyDeleteCome on, many of us have a little bit of Talmud study under our belts. How do you write such a letter without addressing your previous support of 'mak[ing] the matter known publicly'?
How unfortunate that elderly rabbis aren't even thinking this through at all.
This letter has nothing to do with the kol koreh. The kol koreh was signed in February of 2013. The court filed their decision in April of 2010. A kol koreh was signed after 3 years of NOTHING. The IDEA of arbitration was not even brought up until later in 2013. The kol koreh was meant. I ASSUME that Rabbi Kaminetzky who most likely does not frequent the internet himself nor does he read blogs was informed that people bring up his kol koreh or his name as signature that allowed for Dodelson to make public her plight ... however, because he KNOWS that NOW there is currently, hopefully progressive negotiations, he wants no current smearing in his name. However, the smearing at this point is really a bunch of Dodelson sympathizers vs weiss sympathizers trying to make a case for each one while saying mean things about the other. It is forums like this one that allow for that. People have a place to opine. It is not specifically the Dodelson family doing smearing. No one has heard from Gital or her family since that NY post ... only people who have been defending her choices (partly due to the Kol Koreh) .... Rabbi Kaminetzky would like to inform people NOW that negotiations are under way and therefore the Kol Koreh is not applicable at the moment.
DeleteWait, Daniel S! Until you now you were happily prancing around here about how Rav Shmuel shlita signed a letter saying it is okay to publicize this and pressurize him. Now that Rav Shmuel shlita is saying that it is NOT okay and that Dodelson must stop this terrible activity, suddenly you are singing a different tune and are turning on the very same Rav Shmuel who you earlier were using as a wield?
DeleteBefore you were crowing what a godol Rav Shmuel is. Now you are bitterly ranting about how "elderly" Rav Shmuel is and that your "little bit of Talmud study under our belts" is big enough to know better than the same Rav Shmuel you were earlier, happily, parading about.
I think lament is correct. RSK did not change his mind. Nor does he condemn anything Dodelson has done. "as of two weeks ago" does not include the NY Post or Newsweek articles. The case was stalled and the Kol Koreh worked. But the seruv and Kol Koreh are designed with a goal in mind - getting a GET and ending this matter. The goal was never to torture Weiss for no reason.
DeleteRSK's letter, along with RDE assertion, lead me to believe that this is almost over. So lets let Dodelson and Weiss get on with their lives.
Nathan,
DeleteI don't know what you're talking about. I don't believe I've EVER mentioned Rabbi Kamenetsky in a single comment. In fact, I don't recall basing my opinions on ANY signatories to anything.
My point stands. The Kol Koreh is as clear as day. לע״ד, you can't make reference to a 'smear campaign' -- itself a vague term -- and ignore the Kol Koreh with your signature on it.
This is exactly why people are losing faith in the 'gedolim'. In their position, they need to be consistent and well thought out.
How you can take a letter that clearly expresses just WHAT it expresses and turn it into something else is why people keep smearing the weisses and their sympathizers. Rabbi Kaminetzky explicitly stated "as of 2 weeks ago" there are serious negotiations ... 2 weeks ago from a letter dated Friday November 29 2013. It has already been proven that between june and october any possibility of negotiations HAD STALLED so there was NO SERIOUS negotiations then. Two weeks from the date on the letter is roughly the 15th. The NY post article came out November 5th (was probably written shortly before that). It seems to me that the NY post article probably worked and allowed for Gital to feel comfortable going forth with negotiations (NOT arbitration, not mediation ... but private negotiation between the families). Do you realize that YOUR blog is ONE of the only ones that talks about this case on a regular basis allowing for passionate opining on both sides which ultimately leads to constant smearing? Rabbi Kaminetzky is simply letting everyone know, that because the 2 sides have come together to negotiate there is no cause to smear anyone. This has nothing to do with what Rabbi kaminetzky signed earlier and his feelings then and it has NOTHING to do with the question of arbitration which NEVER happened between June and October. If I were you, I would seriously consider not even writing posts on this topic any longer so that they may negotiate in peace and so you do not create a forum where people can spew hate for either party. Let sleeping dogs lie at this point or with all due respect, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
ReplyDeleteNo. Actually Rav Shmuel is specifically demanding that the attacks against the Weiss' by the Dodelsons cease and desist. He is not equating the attacks by both sides, as you are. HRav Shmuel, in the above letter, fully recognizes the public relations attacks are one sided -- by the Dodelsons against the Weiss'.
DeleteI think reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit. He wrote "PUBLIC SMEAR CAMPAIGN" against Weisses and did not say by whom. My point is that the PUBLIC utilizes blogs like this to continue attacks against BOTH sides. Rabbi K is relaying his feelings on what he is told. He never mentions the DODELSONS ... he does mention PUBLIC SMEARS and frankly mentioning that a Get has yet to be given is not a smear in and of itself. The Dodelsons have NOT written anything on their own as a smear since the NY post. Learn how to comprehend what it is you read.
DeleteLament - The Dodelson's have used a PR firm, the NY Post, their own website, facebook page, mailings, and 1/2 the Moetzis to spread their slander, got Weiss and his brother fired and you blame this blog for the problem?
DeleteI'm sorry that you are bothered by the fact that there is one last place where the truth can be spoken and that the Dodelson's money can't silence those that dare speak the truth.
As far as what R' Kaminetsky has written - I think most intelligent people realize not to take anything that he has signed seriously. He has once again proven himself to be irrelevant.
Lament,
DeleteShouldn't your advice apply to the Dodelson family as well? My family, as well as, I'm sure, all families on orthodox mailing lists on Staten Island, just received the latest Dodelson's Weiss/Feinstein bashing mailing this past Friday, November 29th. Does that seem like they are participating in those "serious" negotiations, in good faith? Someone close to Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky, should tell him that the Dodelson's are still continuing with their destructive tactics.
As someone who has always, in the past, looked with disdain, upon the get -refusing men listed in the Jewish Press, I am now thinking that in some cases, there are two sides to the story. Perhaps the Dodelson's, Shira Dicker, Ora, etc. should think twice about their unsavory tactics, which might result in a backlash from people who might have previously supported their cause. I certainly don't think that their campaigns against Rav Reuven, and Rebbitzen Feinstein, and the Yeshiva of Staten Island, and MTJ are warranted. FYI! this is coming from a MO, open-minded, women's rights-advocating, member of the Willowbrook Staten Island, orthodox Jewish community.
Yisstein - you are also spouting OUT OF context. I said, up until these past 2 weeks, according to Rav K who says the past 2 weeks there has been serious negotiations .. they absolutely had the right to resort to their public campaign according to a Kol Koreh signed in part by Rav Kaminetzky which Rav K NEVER claimed was not applicable at the time. To sum up ... this letter was written November 29 .. so the question is what happens going forward and to that I say that this blog should in fact STOP posting on the topic and let them negotiate in peace. If this blog keeps creating posts on the topic it ALLOWS for smearing on BOTH sides. I do hope that Gital's support also allows for "quiet" negotiations. I am referring to hired support ... I hope random sympathizers also allow for quiet negotiations but I do not think sympathizers can be as controlled ... so I ask DT not to create a forum for anyone AT THIS TIME - AFTER RAV K's REQUEST.
DeleteI'm sorry - you received a letter November 29? So it was sent out before then? And by whom? Do you know for a fact the Dodelson's either requested or agreed to have that letter sent out or was it sent out from random sympathizers who think they are doing good work? What did it say in the letter? Let's hope from HERE on out .... if SERIOUS negotiations are in fact taking place per a letter written NOVEMBER 29 .. that there will be no letters and smears and that negotiations can take place peacefully. But please move on from what has occurred up until now as it was all done under the auspices of a Kol Koreh while no negotiations were taking place, while 3 years and then some went by between a civil court ruling and any Get being given. And it really does not matter what hashkafa one is ... we should all be compassionate human beings no matter what and hope that compassion brings Gital her GET.
Delete"Compassionate human beings" should care about a get but not whether a child has the chance to have a meaningful relationship with his or her father?
DeleteRead EVERY one of my comments on this thread and know that I am speaking in a Neutral manner while your comment and others is what is the problem. You have just implied that the woman in question is not allowing for a relationship with the child's father .... so it is YOU who is smearing HER. I can go into why your implication is ridiculous ... but it is NOT the point right now. I said WE should ALL be compassionate human beings and made no reference to limitations on that matter. But the ultimate resolution here is THAT Gital receive a Get. I did not bring up what matters need to be sorted out for that to happen. It is not her side that has smeared his side in your particular comment.
DeleteRead Dodelson's NY Post article. It is pretty clear that Doldelson sees no real role for the child's father in the child's life.
DeleteAn arrangement under which the child spends two nights with one of his parents every two weeks is an abomination
Why exactly would "compassionate human beings" support the right to destroy a family without serious cause?
DeleteAnd if "compassionate human beings" should believe that Gital should have the freedom to divorce and remarry someone who she truly loves, why shouldn't all "compassionate human beings" including gay couples have the "freedom to marry who they love" as this bar mitzvah boy advocates?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqnH5xo_jDE
Why as of two weeks ago? The Post article was much earlier than that.
ReplyDeleteThis doesnt sound like he changed his mind about the underlying facts.
Lament, do you realize that at this very minute that there is a call to sign a petition to have AMW removed from his kollel based on the Kol Koreh? why aren't they mentioning on their facebook page that R'Shmuel Kaminetsky is not behind what they are doing? Why are they saying that it's untrue that there are negotiations going on. I have a feeling that Rabbi Kaminetsky and other will be writing more letters to retract their names from that Kol Koreh.
ReplyDeleteDid you see my response .... the last post was Nov 29 ... subsequently the same day that Rabbi kamenetzky wrote his letter. I could not respond further, only to say ... that is a supportive measure to attain a Get .. however it is not in actuality a "smear"
DeleteIt is most definetely a "smear" when you are trying to get someone removed from their kollel or place of employment. It's sad that you don't see it that way. and as of this very moment on December 3 there is NO mention on the free gital page that R' Kamenetsky does not support this measure.. only in the comments does it show up. They should be honest to say that R' Shmuel Kamenetsky does not support this measure.
DeleteNow that such a letter has been released, when are the Weiss brothers getting their Artscroll jobs back?
ReplyDeletehttp://machlokes.blogspot.com/ this one is relevant and maybe people can help answer some of my questions
ReplyDelete@ Lament
ReplyDeleteYou are trying to revive a dead red herring, sheavar aleha haklach. Bury the hatchet, and throw in the towel. ty
thank you
ReplyDeleteNowhere in this letter is there any comment on humiliating a husband and getting his family fired. Nothing is said about getting the husband to lose his job and to be thrown out of his kollel. In other words, all that the Gedolei haDor Rav Chaim Kaniefsky, Rav Shmuel HaLevi Wosner, Rav Tuvia Weiss, Rav Nissim Karelitz and others have written that humiliating a husband makes an invalid GET means nothing to this writer. He is in his own world, with the Agudah and Lakewood "Gedolim" who defy the gedolei hador who, unlike him, know the laws of gittin. He is in his own world, and that world is where a woman who is related to someone who is his friend or somebody's cousin must be supported with things that are clearly forbidden and will make an invalid GET. RSK has not accepted the opinion of the Gedolim, recently published, and he does not accept the opinions of the Shulchan Aruch, Ramo, Beis Shmuel, Chelkas Mechokake and the Gro in EH 77 para 2 and 3. Such a person has zero right to talk about this case as he is perhaps the main person in America who runs the mamzer factory. Another thing, in Dodelson, the wife never claimed that the husband was too disgusting for her to be with in marriage. She never said anything of the sort, only that she wanted out. If so, this is not even MOUS OLEI, and there is absolutely no source for the letters signed by RSK and the rest of the "gedolim" from Lakewood and the Agudah. I say to them: Tell me a source for what you are telling people to do, tell me a source that says children she will bear in the next marriage are not mamzerim. But these "gedolim" don't need sources for their friends and cousins. And the children? These "gedolim" are must too busy teaching Daas Torah to worry about children born as mamzerim.
ReplyDeleteWhen RSK went to Yeshiva, did they teach him about shame? There is none in this letter. He has written a letter that clearly agrees with his stance of coercing a husband in MOUS OLEI to give a GET, something that defies the poskim. The Gro says that nobody permits it. So why does he permit it? (I am sure he doesn't know the Gro, but he still has to have some excuse that he burped up to help the cousin of a friend.) And what about the hideous letter he signed against Aharon Friedman? Well, that was a daughter of a friend. Any more questions?
ReplyDeleteDo you really think anybody takes you serious ,after you are constantly mevatel the Gedolim of this generation ? Just because you think you are right, doesn't make it so. Maybe you should get some shimush on how to talk properly? I don't know anybody besides yourself that constantly knocks down our leaders as good and as often as you do. I'm sure your rabbaeim are proud of you.
DeleteFrom Beis Din Shar Hamishpat:
DeleteRabbi Kamenetsky’s interference: With all due respect, it is unclear what authority he has to suddenly interfere in a dispute that is not his, and offer “Psakim” (decisions) that the husband is obligated to give a get, and especially to turn the husband to a “Sarvan” when he never heard the husband’s side, at the same time during which the Beis Din before which both sides signed a shtar beirurin and that has heard both sides has not required a get be given. And particularly when Rabbis Ben-Dahan and Belsky issued a decision that until the custody situation is resolved in an appropriate manner there is no obligation to give a get, why wouldn’t he listen to them? [Note: we are not imposing our opinion and decision on the woman as an unsubstantiated decree without reasoning as he did. We offer strong sources for all of our conclusions according to our Holy Torah, and it is the husband’s full right to accept this instruction as conclusive and conduct himself accordingly.]
It was certainly inappropriate of Rabbi Kamenetsky to act this way, when it is universally known that he has close ties to the Epstein family and has accepted benefits from them. The Zohar states that Moshe Rabbeinu stepped down from deciding on the case of Tzlofchad’s daughters since he felt there was suspicion that he disliked their father. And see there that whoever doesn’t act similarly is called an az panim [brazen] and a ga’e [exceedingly haughty]. See the Shla who wrote: “Judges…that… are… suspected of having favoritism to one of the sides in a case and do not resign from that case are called azai panim [brazen] and lacking even a modicum of modesty… When one of the judges in a Beis Din has a love for one of the sides, R’ Bachay wrote, that is the reason Moshe Rabbeinu dismissed himself from judging the Tzlafchad case, since he had somewhat favorable feelings towards them after they mentioned that their father “was not part of the Korach camp.”
And if one thinks other “rabbis” [outside the Beis Din before which both sides signed a shtar beirurin] have the authority to share their opinion, why would Rabbi Kamenetsky think that specifically his opinion obligates the husband more than the opinion of the rabbis who said that he is not obligated to give a get until an appropriate custody arrangement is arranged in an acceptable manner. Does the husband not have the right to follow those rabbis? Why does he think that the husband is subjugated, and is required to listen, specifically to him?
See "Dr. Dovid Epstein, z’l," Yated Ne’eman, May 4, 21012 (noting how close Dr. Epstein was to Rabbi Kamenetsky and featuring a picture of the two, and Dr. Epstein’s involvement in the Philadelphia Orthodox community);
Delete“Dr. Epstein [Tamar’s father] was an active supporter of Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia, a religious school for Orthodox Jewish boys and young men in Overbrook. He volunteered his medical services to the school and was on call to care for the students 24/7, said a close friend, Rick Goldfein [Tamar Epstein’s Rabbinical Court lawyer and press spokesman].”
http://articles.philly.com/ 2010-04-20/news/25213049_1_family-physician-geriatric-medicine-future-wife
this is a beautiful post rabbi, you tell it as it is
DeleteNot a fool,
DeleteYou want to know why I attack Gedolim. I never attacked a Gadol. I attack people who are not Gedolim but the opposite, who tell people to do things that defy the true Gedolim and the Shulchan Aruch and poskim. A Gadol always backs up his remarks. He doesn't flout his "gadluse" as if his opinion is Daas Torah and the Shulchan Aruch is old fashioned. Remember, the great rabbis of Israel Reb Chaim Kaniefsky, Rav Shmuel HaLevi Wosner, Rav Nissim Karelitz, etc. have ruled that what the Lakewood and Agudah "gedolim" are telling people to do to force a GET produces an invalid GET and mamzerim. I am sure this doesn't penetrate your brain or heart or whatever you are using. I mean, if your name is "not a fool" why do you choose these Talmud teachers over great rabbis who have been giving and paskining Gittin for many decades?
@bz no that wont happen till this is resolved,and amazing given what has been happening in the orthodox world because of this that that is whats keeping you on the edge of your seat
ReplyDeleteI think lament and foncused are the same person. When he is down he uses lament when he is accusing he uses foncused. The letter, in my opinion has 2 parts. Part 1 is a mea culpa of sorts. It says negotiations have been ongoing. We all knew this already. However, I believe RSK needed to show a reason he is no longer supporting the Dodelsons or the kol koreh. The second part regarding the smear campaign is not connected to the first part. RSK is saying he has never allowed the smear campaign in the first place. Problem is, Dodelsons seem to be their own god at the moment and don't really care. This cat is too out of the bag to be brought back any time soon.
ReplyDeleteYou are incorrect
Deletewhy doesn't someone call him and ask what he meant in the letter
DeleteHu lan, vehu lehi ;) Translation: Don't do as I do, do as I tell you. Tora achas yihye lachem = one for you and one for me, u chap?
ReplyDeleteNot from anonymous - from itchiemayer who otherwise can't figure out how to post....
ReplyDeleteRSK's letter implies that prior to two weeks ago, he did in fact support the smear campaign. It is worded very carefully. It has come to my attention that "it CONTINUES with my support". In other words, it shall not continue with my support, although I did support it prior.
I agree. I think RSK wanted the Post article to come out when it first did. Now he can't take the heat from his right wing followers so he is dropping out.
DeleteRabbi Shafran's statement below seems to indicate that Aguda opposes the prenup because this would lead to the ability to obtain a get upon demand, as opposed to having to show cause for destroying a marriage in a beis din. This seems somewhat inconsistent with the letter of the roshai yeshiva in the Dodelson case.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Avi Shafran, spokesman for the Haredi Orthodox Agudath Israel of America, said Aguda does not advocate the use of halakhic prenups.
“There is a concern that introducing and focusing on the possible dissolution of a marriage when it is just beginning is not conducive to the health of the marriage,” Shafran said. “I don’t think it is really possible to gauge their efficacy without data, and in any event, it would be impossible to know when the existence of a prenup might have eased the way toward a divorce when a marriage might, with effort and determination, have been saved."
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/1.561188
Parent,
DeleteHave you read the pre-nup? It only permits the payments once the pre-approved BD has determined that the marraige is over. Why cant Shafran just adjust the pre-nup to submit all cases to the jurisdiction of the BD of his choice and empower that BD to make decisions.
James:
Delete"the existence of a prenup might have eased the way toward a divorce when a marriage might, with effort and determination, have been saved."
IOW, the prenup makes divorce more likely even when the marriage could have been saved. Therefore it is a bad idea.
Actually you have many choices with the prenup. You can have the rca approved BD decide everything including custody and finances or you can limit them all the way down to only the get. Most people only allow them the get. The interesting thing there is that it doesnt say that the get is done first (unless it has been changed). One can argue that the get can't be given until all is settled though the rca rabbinate doesn't read it that way nor will they let you. Let us not forget the mr. Broyde was an author of this fine document. I think that speaks volumes of its worth.
DeleteBT,
DeleteHow does the prenup make divorce more likely? The Agudah can authorize a BD of experts that will determine whether the marriage is salvageable. If so, they wont enforce the penalties. The pre-nup just gives BD an enforcement mechanism should it determine that the GET is obligatory.
Let Shafran convene such a BD and give them power. We all agree that the Agudah loves power. The dismissal of the pre-nup is disingenuous. It is only because the MO use it that they reject it. In principle, the Agudah has no legitimate objection.
Rav Eliashev paskened the RCA type prenup causes a future Get to be a Get Me'usa.
DeleteWhere?
DeleteBesides, there are plenty of poskim who disagree. We are not bound by everything he said.
Rav Eliashev is by far from the only one to hold that position. Indeed in the Chareidi world there are either none or almost none Poskim who have voiced disagreement with Rav Eliashev's position on this matter. It is the universally held and default psak in the Chareidi world.
DeleteIf you want to have children that are considered mamzeirim according to some poskim (i.e. Rav Eliashev and other Chareidi poskim) but are considered kosher according to other poskim (i.e. Rabbi Hershal Schachter and Modern Orthodox rabbis), no one can stop you. But don't come crying to us in 20 years when you find no one wants to marry your children who -- "only" according to "some" poskim -- are considered to be mamzeirim.
Got my hands on some internal emails from a relative of R Sholom Kamenetzky. I am debating whether it not to wait for permission to publish them. Suffice it to say that there is more to this story that the Weiss family isn't putting out here. Surprised?
ReplyDeleteI am rather surprised at the Dodelson's - who have an all hang out philosophy as long as it is perceived as damaging to the Weiss's - that they have not already published the material on their website
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteSure ,go pick out only those emails that will show exactly what you want.
There is always more to every story. That's why I'm surprised that people seem to have taken every word of the NY Post article (and the rest of the Dicker smear campaign) as absolute Torah misinai.
ReplyDeleteDevevos - you're over. Whatever the emails it doesnt change the fact that the Dodelsons staunchest supporter has deserted them. I also heard from a very reliable relative of RSK that he publicly said she is not an agunah. Take the deal. Whatever it is. The Dodelson facade is breaking. Whatever you got I am sure the weisses have the same. Do you have a letter from their supporters saying they don't back them anymore? Wake up now.
ReplyDelete"Weiss Dodelson: Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky "Smear campaign against the Weiss Family should cease and desist" "
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS NOT ENOUGH !!!!
BY NOW THERE MUST BE A CALL TO RE-HIRE THE TWO SENIOR WEISSES (THE FATHER AND UNCLE OF AMW) WHO "RESIGNED" (READ: "WERE FIRED") AS SENIOR EDITORS FROM THE ILLUSTRIOUS ARTSCROLL-MESORAH PUBLICATIONS AND A PUBLIC APOLOGY MUST BE ISSUED BY THE DODELSONS FOR BESMIRCHING THE GOOD NAME AND WORK OF ITS HEAD RABBI MEIR ZLOTOWITZ AND HIS ASSOCIATES WHEN THE DODELSONS CALLED FOR THE "BOYCOTT" OF ARTSCROLL THAT IS FACILITATING THE GREATEST TEACHING AND SPREAD OF TORAH IN MODERN HISTORY, ALL WHILE THEIR DESPERATE DAUGHTER "PROSTITUTES" HERSELF IN THE NEW YORK POST AND OTHER SECULAR MEDIA BESMIRCHING THE GOOD NAME OF THE FRUM WORLD.
HOW CAN THE GOOD NAME OF ARTSCROLL BE RESTORED AFTER THE DAMAGE INFLICTED UPON IT BY THE DODELSON'S SATANIC "PR CAMPAIGNS"???
HOW CAN THE GOOD NAME OF RABBI MEIR ZLOTOWITZ AND HIS TEAM BE RESTORED???
HOW CAN ARTSCROLL REDEEM ITS REPUTATION AFTER BEING SUBJECTED TO MEAN-SPIRITED DEFAMATION S BY THE DODELSON TEAM???
HOW CAN ANY EHRLICHE JEW LIVE KNOWING THAT TWO ILLUSTREOUS EDITORS AND BRILLIANT TALMIDIE CHACHOMIM SUCH AS THE SENIOR WEISSES WERE THROWN OUT LIKE GARBAGE TO THE WOLVES BECAUSE THE DODELSONS LAUNCHED A DIGITAL "HIT TEAM" TO BRING THEM DOWN AND GET THEM FIRED THUS RUINING THEIR LIVELIHOOD AND RUINING THE REPUTATION OF ARTSCROLL???
THE SAME GEDOLIM WHO HAVE PRAISED ARTSCROLL IN THE PAST IN WRITING MYRIADS OF TIMES MUST SEE TO IT THAT THE DODELSONS ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND THAT THEY PAY FULL DAMAGES TO THE WEISSES AND MAKE FULL REPARATIONS TO ARTSCROLL AND ALL ITS EDITORS FOR BESMIRCHING THEM!!!
http://machlokes.blogspot.com/ please see part three
ReplyDeleteThe time has come to dismantle this whole Aguna propaganda machine of ORA who is behind these lies. So long as Kaminetsky, Kotler, Herschel Schachter and all the other rabbis dont publicly denounce ORA and FOR THAT MATTER ANY WOMAN WHOSE HUSBAND IS LISTED ON THEIR SITE, SHOULD FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF ALL SINS OF LOSHON HORA/MOTZI SHEM RA THAT WILL ARISE FROM THAT CASE. ORA has taken a Torah concept and twisted it in such a way that EVERY WOMAN WHO DOESNT HAVE A GET ON DEMAND IS CALLED AN AGUNA!! What a joke and travesty that rabbis remain silent to their vicious attacks!!!!
ReplyDeletedovevos let me explain the situation to you.the weisses and dodelsons cannot speak to one another so they both have caring people on their sides who only want to make this get happen.as of a week ago it was red dovid(junior)feeinstein and reb sholom.as much as you would like to have the public believe reb dovids goal and i can only presume reb shaloms goal too was to make this get happen.but this only works because they both hhave put aside their bias and have uninvolved themselves in anything but procuring a get.if you produce emails which allegedly came from reb sholom which will be against the weisses you may very well be the cause of a new rift this one in the negotiators which may very well disrupt or even stop negotiations
ReplyDeleteCan someone explain to me why Avraham Meir should give a get now for anything but 100% of what he wants? Forget pshoro- why should we make any pshoros with these people? Tell her what you want- & if she doesn't give it, let her sit.
ReplyDeleteCheck out more posts on the _Bmg/Kotler Involvement in the Wiess Dodelson case at Yudelstake.blogspot.com , Posted by Rabbi Yuheuda Shain on His Blog "Yudels Rest of The Story"
ReplyDeletesoyf davar...because even if your opinion is that hes right and he should use the get to get what he deserves theres somethings which are just not worth it.meaning if the question is where should he be on tuesday at 427 pm is that really worth what this is causing no matter how right he is?!
ReplyDeletethis is way past right or wrong
ReplyDeleteRabboisai.
ReplyDeleteJay has a good Hoara. Is where he is at 4:27 worth it? For both sides? That's why this needs to be about more. This needs to be about what this cost the Weiss's- they need to understand this isn't just about them. They need to fight for all of us now.
Over at Yudels, there is this comment
ReplyDelete" Anonymous said...
Rabbi Y.P. was appointed by the court to design a fair visitation schedule. He received unfriendly calls at 4:00 AM from the extended family telling him exactly what arrangements he is to make, only to benefit the Dodelsons. Rabbi Y.P. was therefore forced to tell the Court he is resigning. He did not have the guts to tell the Court why he is resigning.
That family does everything with strong arm tactics.
Essau V Jacob
Sun Oct 27, 09:36:00 AM 2013"
Who was YP?
SAKI DODELSON, "KOLLEL WIFE" FROM ISRAEL:
ReplyDeleteFrom: The Jewish Voice, 15 May 2013, by Fern Sidman:
Historic Jewish Women’s Entrepreneur Conference Attracts Hundreds
...On Sunday, May 5, a tangible electricity and energy filled the air as over 500 Orthodox Jewish women from across North America gathered at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in New Brunswick, New Jersey for the very first “JWE” (Jewish Women’s Entrepreneurs Conference)...
After welcoming the conference attendees, Chaya Fishman introduced the featured speaker. Saki Dodelson, originally from Israel, and now residing in Lakewood, New Jersey is the founder, is the president and CEO of Achieve3000, an educational company that uses technology to dramatically accelerate students reading levels. Using proprietary technology, Acheive3000’s award winning programs - KidBiz3000, TeenBiz3000, and Empower3000 deliver nonfiction content which is differentiated to each student’s Lexile reading level. and have proven to be highly successful in raising reading test scores in districts across the country, including New York City, Chicago, Washington, DC, Houston and Miami. The New Jersey Business Journal has named Mrs. Dodelson as one of New Jersey’s Best 50 Women in Business.
“Today my company is worth $100 million,” says Mrs. Dodelson, adding that it was not an easy journey getting to where she is today. “It took a lot of sweat and very hard work. My husband learns in Kollel. I was sick during my pregnancy. I even had to mortgage my house,’ she says. “I tell women who want to start a business that they should start small but think big and scale fast. The main thing is to find what works for you, what you’re interested in and what drives you,” she declares with confidence. As many Orthodox women find themselves in challenging roles as mothers and homemakers, Mrs. Dodelson says, “It’s always nice to prepare magnificent meals for your family, but you can also eat simple. I, for one, don’t cook very often, but if you have supportive family they can be of great help.”
While many husbands can be threatened and jealous by wives who are financially successful, Mrs. Dodelson says, “Help make your husband successful as well and there are many ways of doing it. I have the most respect for my husband for without him all I would have is money.” As to crediting her inspiration for success, Mrs. Dodelson says that it was her father who told her that, “the sky’s the limit. Do whatever you want to do, because you can do it.”..."
So the $100 Million dollar woman certainly has the financial wherewithal to hire the Reform Jewess Public Relations hit-woman Shira Dicker to get a New York Post article, Facebook page and a professional website to attack the Weiss family and cause them to lose their jobs.
DeleteEmail, call or write to Saki Dodelson at:
ReplyDeleteAchieve3000
DIFFERENTIATED LITERACY SOLUTIONS FOR GRADES 2-12
1985 Cedarbridge Avenue, Lakewood, NJ 08701
Saki Dodelson: 732-367-5505
Email: saki.dodelson@achieve3000.com
www.achieve3000.com
R' Yeruchem Pitter?
ReplyDeleteThis "campaign" may be aimed at the Wiess family, however it is also primarily aimed at getting attention to the "get by force issue" in general, in order to sway public opinion leading up to the trial.
ReplyDeleteThere is a Police Car parked infront of Rav Reuven Feinstein Yeshiva In Staten Island 24/7 to serve as a Deterent against the Lakewood Hooligans who come down there to make trouble
ReplyDeleteAlthough R' Shmuel Kamenetsky asked that the smear campaign cease and desist, the Dodelsons still keep posting on their Facebook page against the Avrohom Meir Weiss!
ReplyDeleteSo how do they legitimize that? Till now it was with notion that the Kol Korei called for action, but now R' Shmuel made it pretty clear that it is null...
Friends,
ReplyDeleteR Kaminetsky is just another old, isolated Rabbi who has no personal knowledge of what he is talking about, as he says in his letter: "It was brought to my attention ..." That means someone told him that there was a smear campaign. He personally hasn't any idea in the world about any smear campaign.
What is a smear campaign? It is the use of personal attacks on a disputant that don’t related too the dispute itself but seek to discredit one of disputant.
In this case, a smear campaign against Avramie, only for an example, would be to publicly claim he is gay, a bad father, a non-observer or a criminal, etc.
I’ve heard none of that. I heard he is extorting Dodelson for money and favorable custody provision. That’s what he said himself: He started the bargaining at $350,000 - Eidensohn wrote that! So there’s no smear campaign,
But iver butel, yes. Didn’t he - plus six other members of the moetzes gedolei hatorah - sign a Kol Koreh that said: “There is an obligation upon anyone who is able to do so, to influence Avrohom Meir that he should listen to Bais Din and that he should give a Get”.
So he must have forgotten that he signed that Kol Koreh!
Can you respect anyone who first poskens that you should try to influence Avramie to give a get and then shortly thereafter poskens you should not try to influence him?
Finally, Obama could use this Rav to help negotiate with Iran. “You know the pressure that brought Weiss to the bargaining table, call it off now while they bargain.” All Rav Kaminetsky’s letter does is reveal him to be manipulated by others who feed him misinformation. Same as Reb Dovid, shlit”a. His handlers told him there was an arbitration. There wasn;t. Nonetheless, they made him posken that because Avramie went to binding arbitration that is the same as him actually going to beis din.
Remember now that nothing in this dispute has anything to do any Torah principal. It is just Avramie’s personal determination to extort money, etc. from his ex-wife.
Rav Kaminetsky’s letter makes no mention of any halacha or Torah principal.
But the pressure on Weiss continues to grow, to the point where his monetary extortion demands have gone way down. Rav Kaminetsky was used just to help shore up the get asking price by reducing the public pressure on Weiss.
Thus, the Weiss family has exposed the both the entire American Yeshivishe Rabbinate. The Feinsteins are making get refusal legitimate, undercutting an established beis din and refusing to follow the rabbonim of the Moetzes Gedolei haTorah.
I don’t see how anyone can have an emunas Chachomim after this fiasco. Why are the great rabbis involved? Just to make little Avramie feel better about having married Dodelson.
With all due t respect, please re-read the letter: "It was brought to my attention that the public smear campaign against the Weiss family continue with MY SUPPORT".
DeleteAlso realize that R' Dovid Feinstein is also on the Moetzes.
I would like to point out as well, that until that Kol Korei came out (of the blue) this case had nothing to do with a Get!
Avrohom Meir was willing to give the Get had Gital requested it through a bais din long ago. The reason why she didn't was simply because the Bais Din would have forced her to pay the money she halachicly owes him, and given him a very generous visitation portion until the cold turns six years old and then he would get full custody. Something she was trying to avoid by going public instead!
"Pursuit of HonestyDecember 8, 2013 at 3:08 AM
DeleteWith all due t respect, please re-read the letter: "It was brought to my attention that the public smear campaign against the Weiss family continue with MY SUPPORT".
Also realize that R' Dovid Feinstein is also on the Moetzes.
I would like to point out as well, that until that Kol Korei came out (of the blue) this case had nothing to do with a Get!
Avrohom Meir was willing to give the Get had Gital requested it through a bais din long ago. The reason why she didn't was simply because the Bais Din would have forced her to pay the money she halachicly owes him, and given him a very generous visitation portion until the cold turns six years old and then he would get full custody. Something she was trying to avoid by going public instead!"
Pursuit of Honesty seems to be full of SHEKER. Who sent the Hazmonos, Wiess or Dodelson? Who is a well verified Mesaruv, Wiess or Dodelson? And now has the nerve to claim that he is willing to listen to a Bes Din!! What a liar.
Has anyone commented on the fact that the Dodelsons are now listing Rebbitzen Sheila Feinstein as an enabler?! Aside from the fact that she neither houses, financially supports, or feeds AM Weiss, she has never publicly voiced her support either! I think we need to get on the Dodelson's case here, they are attcking an innocent Rebbetzin for family ties and nothing else, and we are just sitting by and letting it happen.
ReplyDeleteMost of us don't have the capability to fight back against terrorism!
DeleteI can make up a definition that Shira Dicker is also an enabler, since without her involvement in this case , Gital would already have had a get.
DeletePlease answer some of the following questions: What were the hazmanos sent about? Did Weiss respond to those hazmanos or did ignore them? Was the bais din from Weiss' city? What right did the bais din have to write a siruv (based on the correct answers to the above questions)? Was there bitul siruv written? What was the Kol Korei based on? Who backed out of negotiations?
ReplyDeleteNow in case you don't know the correct answers I'll gladly give you a short overview.
The Bais Din sent hazmanos regarding Arkaos (not about a Get). Weiss responded to Bais Din saying that he chose a Borer. When Bais Din ignored his response - for some unknown reason - he said he would like to use Zablah. Halachicly both of those responses are enough to knock the Bais Din out, instead they ignored them and wrote a Siruv. Halachicly the Bais Din should be from the defendant's city, another reason why this Bais Din has no jurisdiction over this case. Since the Bais Din wrote a Siruv, the got a Bitul Siruv, so either way there is no current Siruv. So what was kol Korei written about? The case has nothing to do with a Get just yet. It's quite apparent that the Kol Korei was written with a complete misconception, and R' Shmuel's letter is testifying to that. There were negotiations going on for years but the Dodelsons chose to go to the post instead. See Rabbi Greenwald's 4 emails/letters, R' Dovid's psak, the hazmanos, the hasrah, the responses by Weiss to the bais din, the Siruv, the Kol Korei, R' Shmuel's letter, R' Shlomo Miller's letter, the court documents, and most importantly the Shulchan Aruch, seder ha'Get with the Rama, for sources. And see ask of the above before responding!
This was in reply to Joe Snow...
DeleteHow was this letter 'released?' Why can't I find it anywhere on the web besides this blog? What should convince us of its authenticity?
ReplyDelete