The defendant Rafael Cohen is the step-son of Rabbi Shlomo Friefeld zt"l. I find it hard to believe that Yeshiva Chaim Berlin can not deal with this case internally. After all Rabbi Friefeld was a very close student of Rav Hutner zt"l. I am simply astounded that considering the gedolim who are directly or indirectly involved - that the sides have not resolved the issue already. It is mind boggling that intelligent, sensitive people and frum people are now involved in a 400 million dollar lawsuit in a secular court. The chilul hashem attendant not only from the charges in this case but the fact that the Jews - who are known as a wise and understanding people - have to turn to goyim to resolve their disputes.
Another troubling aspect, at a time when the Orthodox community is reeling from the financial disaster brought on by the Recession - where are they getting money to hire lawyers for these lawsuits? As a minimum I would estimate it will cost each party to the dispute $100,000. Obviously neither side has that type of money and it is apparently being supplied by well meaning wealthy individuals. That money is going to lawyers - not to yeshivos or other worthy causes.
dear blogger,
ReplyDeleteyou have so much time on your hand as to sit erev tishe ba av and bashmutz mr hersh and his family may hashem give you what you desereve shame on you!! i beileive underneath that hat of yours is full of filth and shmutz uch!!
who cares about rafael cohen!!
ReplyDeleteand who he is or who step son he is he is an embarassement to KLAL YISROEL and his wife to!!
R' DE: Where has been your righteous indignation when alleged victims of abuse turned to the "scular courts" and the "goyim to resolve their disputes" rather than, as you asked, "can not deal with this case internally"?
ReplyDeleteWho are you to mesh in a machlokes HaGedolim anyways? Let the simpleton bloggers keep their nose where it belongs.
Ben Torah said...
ReplyDeleteR' DE: Where has been your righteous indignation when alleged victims of abuse turned to the "scular courts" and the "goyim to resolve their disputes" rather than, as you asked, "can not deal with this case internally"?
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You are missing an elementary point. When you go for a judgment of innocence or guilt or who owes money to whom - the obligation is go to Jewish court unless there are extraneous conditions.
In the case of abuse - Rav Silman and others are clear that the victim is not going to a secular court for judgment but for protection. See Choshen Mishpa 388 as well as Bava Metzia 83a and the Ritva, Rashba etc etc.
Obviously there are times when secular court is appropriate when there is no other way of protection. Here the issue could have been resolved internally.
Let the simpleton bloggers keep their nose where it belongs.
ReplyDeleteNoses.
Baruch
bpelta.blogspot.com
IMHO the real concern for chillul hashem may be the homefront - how many folks will look at this and say "the emporer has no clothes"
ReplyDeleteKT
Joel Rich
That picture on this article is Rabbi Friefeld, not Mr. Cohen.
ReplyDeleteYou are missing an elementary point. When you go for a judgment of innocence or guilt or who owes money to whom - the obligation is go to Jewish court unless there are extraneous conditions.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of abuse - Rav Silman and others are clear that the victim is not going to a secular court for judgment but for protection. See Choshen Mishpa 388 as well as Bava Metzia 83a and the Ritva, Rashba etc etc.
Obviously there are times when secular court is appropriate when there is no other way of protection. Here the issue could have been resolved internally.
you obviously have no inside on this case anyways what you don't know is that not only is mr. hersh protecting himself but his beautiful wife and kids, because this mershas rifka cohen and her loyal husband who is NOT pictured above are not yet done with there work, she (rifka cohen) would love to put her hands on the rest of the kids and destroy them, take a moment and speak to the rest of the normal kids at the hersh house you will find out how Terrified they are of this lovely aunt of theirs....
how does being the stepson of this big tzaddik rav freifeld make him automaticaly be the reightous one?
you are correct i have no inside information
ReplyDeleteplease provide this
also dont call yorself annonymos
R' Eidenson:
ReplyDeletePesonaly I hope that you continue posting things against the Hersh family. We will finally be able to see you get sued for every penny you and your despicable "daas torah" is worth. fech!
secondly stop ranting about chilul hashem! you on a daily basis try and fnd frum yidden to bashmutz publicy. Is there any bigger chilul hashem than seeing a so called "rabbi" in a black hat filled with so much hatred to his fellow yidden?!
I await the day you will be on trial.
BTW. I think you are treading in unsafe territory R' Schechter and his people will bring you down.
ReplyDeleteMark my words.
FYI RDE, the monies for the lawsuit are allegedly coming directly from a Chaim Berlin bank account. The defendants do not have deep pockets behind them but seem to have garnered sympathy money from outraged people at this abuse and chillul hashem.....
ReplyDeletewho knows how long they w8ill last against this assault,
THE BIG QUESTION is WHY SUE A BUNCH OF PEPLE WITH NO MONEY FOR 400 MILLION IN COURT WHEN THEY NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO PAY EVEN IF THERE IS A JUDGEMENT AGAINST THEM. ALL IT WILL DO IS RUIN THEIR LIVES WHO WAS MATIR THIS?
I am sick and tired of all these so called rabbonim and gedolim who tell us not go to secular courts but when they and their insiders need to get something done or it is their money which is on the line they run to the secular court ie Bobov, Satmar, Shechter, Tropper
ReplyDeleteThe subject matter that you have addressed on your blog is totally out of place. It is clear that you have no accurate information on this subject and it would be equally non-productive to give you accurate information. People have their own agendas, which don't necessarily reflect the truth. To call yourselves "Daas Torah" is arrogance, since you're totally unaware of what the daas Torah is, as there are different views on this matter.
ReplyDeleteNorman - I thank you for your effusive compliments. As you point out I am only a blogger. So please explain to me with your inside information what Mr. Hersh hopes to gain by a public spectacle in a secular trial. 1) Does he expect to get his job back at Hatzala? 2) Does he think that this trial - which has been condemned in private by many major rabbonim - enhances his reputation even if he should win? 3) Is he willing to settle this before beis din? Obviously he is not in it for the money because the cost of what he has spent on lawyers is more than he can hope to win in a judgment. 4) Is he aware that there is serious disenchantment - among the donors of Yeshiva Chaim Berlin as well as many of the community - with this embarrassing public battle? 5) As a psychologist it is obvious that the claims against the defendants and in particular and what he claims are their motivation will be impossible to prove - especially since Mr. Hersh's own relatives including his father and brother are willing to testify against him.
ReplyDeleteTo put in bluntly Mr. Hersh and his backers have chosen a suicidal path which can only cause destruction. There is absolutely no constructive purpose that can be accomplished in using the atom bomb of a public secular trial.
The other issue that has been brought up is that this is necessary to defend the honor of his rebbe. As someone who has close ties to Chaim Berlin - let me tell you that there are many Chaim Berliners who are embarrassed that the emperor has no clothes but are afraid to tell him.
Realistically the matter would have better been served by going to the Aguda and asking them to arbitrate - not dictate.
Kavod haTorah and reputation will not be achieved through a public secular trial.
So Norman you can gloat and hope that Mr. Hersh trains his weapons of mass destruction on me. But if you have the slightest drop of ahavas Yisroel and kavod haTorah you will push for private discussion in this Torah matter.
Norman wrote:"BTW. I think you are treading in unsafe territory R' Schechter and his people will bring you down."
ReplyDeleteWow, so now Chaim Berlin is a mob organization/family. Since when do Rosh Yeshiva's need to bring people down who disagree with them? Aren't they supposed to be above that? If anyone has done something wrong let Hashem take care of it for them instead of bringing a lawsuit or threating people on blogs.
argee said...
ReplyDeleteThe subject matter that you have addressed on your blog is totally out of place. It is clear that you have no accurate information on this subject and it would be equally non-productive to give you accurate information. People have their own agendas, which don't necessarily reflect the truth. To call yourselves "Daas Torah" is arrogance, since you're totally unaware of what the daas Torah is, as there are different views on this matter.
===================
so please enlighten me. I have not heard a single explanation of Mr. Hersh's actions which make any sense. As I have said before - I would be happy to publish a cogent explanation from Mr. Hersh or one of his supporters.
So while you obviously don't think to much of me - but if you are concerned with Mr. Hersh's reputation then you need to produce something which will turn the overwhelming tide of public opinion which is totally repulsed by a public show trial.
Defendants Aryeh and Eli Wolbe, 1.
ReplyDeleteNot only is it painful to watch members of Rav Freifeld's family getting attacked, it seems for caring too much about the welfare of the Hersh children their nephews, but it's also the family members of Rav Wolbe, his grandsons Aryeh and Eli who are also defendants, and by implication Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky their grandmother's cousin.
The Kaminetsky family is also deeply effected by this, Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky having taken his stand in defense of Isaac Hersh publicly in 2008. The Wolbe and Kaminetsky families are related because Rebbetzin Rivka Wolbe, the wife of Rav Shlomo Wolbe, is a first cousin to Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky. In her recently published Holocaust memoir, "Faith in the Night: Ve'emunascha Baleilos" (Judaica Press, 2009) she writes: "My grandparents had three daughters and one son: Chasya, the eldest daughter, was my mother; her middle sister, Ita Ettel, was married to Harav Yaakov Kmainetzky, zt"l; and the youngest sister married Rav Shabsai Wernikowsky, Hy"d, a maggid shiur in the Lomzha Yeshiva."
According to both the article in The Jewish Star and in in affidavits, Rabbi Aryeh Wolbeand his brother Eli is depicted as some sort of "bad guys" when only Michael Hersh seems to think so.
Here is what the The Jerusalem Kollel says about Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe:
"Meet Aryeh Wolbe, one of our Kollel Members.
In Aryeh's own words: "Our father always taught us as children to be concerned for Klal Yisrael[the nation of Israel]- for the Klal and each individual in it. Starting from the small details of chesed, and even by small words of encouragement to people in need. My father, being a businessman and a truly giving person always ran (and runs) an open house..."
Defendants Aryeh and Eli Wolbe, 1.
ReplyDeleteThe Jerusalem Kollel..."Meet Aryeh Wolbe, one of our Kollel Members.
...In addition, my greatest inspiration was from a speech that my grandfather gave on a visit to America when I was 13 years old (note - Aryeh's grandfather HaRav Shlomo Wolbe of blessed memory, considered by many to be the greatest, and most important proponent of Mussar [Torah based self-improvement] of recent times). In the speech, delivered at Ohr Sameach Monsey, my grandfather was highly emotional about the devastating situation of what he termed "the Spiritual Holocaust" that is threatening American Jewry. I was so affected, that I decided at that young age to focus my energies, in addition to my learning, towards helping, and being mekarev my fellow Jews. For example, at the age of 17, I started working with youth at risk- drug and alcohol abuse, emotional problems, etc. In addition, the situation of worldwide Jewry also has been a major focus for me throughout the last few years- from the ages of 17 through 22, I traveled to the Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus 9 times, at first working in programs there, including running Seminars and translating and transliterating Siddurim, Machzorim, etc. into Russian, for their use. Eventually, I started my own organization with the purpose of providing, for no charge, thousands of religious articles- tefillin, Mezuzot, etc. I've also worked extensively in America- I taught in Memphis, Tennessee on Torah U'masorah's SEED program on 7 different occasions, was a mentor at the Moodus Kiruv Program, and worked on many other programs.
In light of the above, joining Rabbi Berkovits' Kollel was the obvious choice in which to spend my last few years of learning in Israel. I not only received a strong methodology in Torah study, but also a new, positive, and productive world view. In addition, it's an incredible feeling to be in an institution with a group of future leaders who take their responsibilities to Klal Yisrael seriously.
My plans are to come to a community with little or no solid core of Judiasm, and to make a major impact in returning it to its Jewish roots."
Before joining The Jerusalem Kollel, Aryeh learned in some of the finest institutions of higher Jewish learning, including the Beis Medrash Gevoha of Lakewood.
Aryeh's wife Zahava, was brought up in a home dedicated to Chesed and Kiruv. Her father, R. Eli Gewirtz, is the head of Torah U'Mesorah's Partner's in Torah, one of the leading Kiruv Programs in the United States. Zahava has worked extensively in Kiruv, teaching, and counseling.
Aryeh is now the Executive Director of TORCH (The Houston Kiruv Kollel and Resource Center)."
"Rabbi" Blogger said: "So Norman you can gloat and hope that Mr. Hersh trains his weapons of mass destruction on me. But if you have the slightest drop of ahavas Yisroel and kavod haTorah you will push for private discussion in this Torah matter."
ReplyDeleteThis has nothing to do with Hersh. My hope that you will be sued is based upon your hared for other yidden that has been proven time and time again over the years. in addition you have continuously spoken out against rabonim and Roshei yeshiva. I think you are a very sad, bored, and despicable human. I am actual happy that you finally picked a fight with people that will make sure you will regret the day you ever blogged. I know them. They will stop at nothing,and sue you for every penny.
As far as me pushing for private discussion. Even if I wanted to, which I obviously dont, they will never listen. What you had a part in, and CONTINUE to take part in doing to them, and what you do to others here daily is irreversible damage. They will never sit with you in discussion. They will throw the book at you.
nu nu
ReplyDeleteI know them. They will stop at nothing,and sue you for every penny.
ReplyDeleteAs far as me pushing for private discussion. Even if I wanted to, which I obviously dont, they will never listen. What you had a part in, and CONTINUE to take part in doing to them, and what you do to others here daily is irreversible damage. They will never sit with you in discussion. They will throw the book at you.
To use an old cliche, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
What halakhic grounds is there to sue a blogger? For that matter what halakhic grounds is there to sue another Jew without going to a Beit Din first?
If you want these to be respected as ehrlich Jews, let them first act like it.
Norman sounds to me every bit a despicable human, and a ranting lunatic at that.
ReplyDeleteBe careful what you wish for others ...
Practice what you preach.
ReplyDeleteIf you'd like DT to be more respectful, then talk to him with respect. Otherwise, please be quiet and/or don't read this blog.
You can holler "erev tisha b'av, erev tisha b'av" all you want, but if you cant talk with respect, nobody is going to listen to you. and you're only repeating the same sin'a that you're ranting about.
Do you know the halachos of tochacha? if not, then, again, either read in silence or dont read the blog at all.
Blog authors know they aren't giving absolute truth, or at least this one knows that. But he is trying to bring material to light that needs attention. Should we be mikabel everything here as 100%truth? of course not. but protection and awareness is a different story.
So please, if you don't like what's said here, use your free speech elsewhere- cuz nobody respects those who rant and rave and come across as having an unsound mind. I understand that you write in such a way because you're so hurt and ashames on behalf of Mr. Hersch or whomever, but your message doesn't come across well when the medium is so vengeful and dispicable.
I repeat- if you want respect and fair treatment, why not start with your OWN speech.
Thank you.
i also would like to say that the fact that the Cohens are relatives of R' Freifeld does not and should not protect them. Zechus Avos is not the same as zechus of aunts/uncles/cousins. And besides, we have numerous examples throughout history of (supposed) criminals and converts to Christianity who were mivazeh their family name. I don't know anything about the Cohens, but in this day and age we can't assume anything just because of pedigree.
ReplyDeleteNorman sound like one of Tropper former employee who got their EJF grants cut and now they need to find another source of income. Tropper's people blame rabbi Eidensohn for their master misfortune just like the Rubashkin people blame the Failed Messiah for their man downfall
ReplyDeleteconfused says
ReplyDeletei seem to remember a chasam sofer saying that an abnormal child cannot go for treatment where he will not keep yidishkeit.
how can one send a child to jamaica. do they keep it there.
Norman, I think that Rabbi Eidelson is protected by the first amensment of the United States constitution. Reporters are aloud to report on lawsuits and even give their opinions. What continent are you from?
ReplyDeleteDT: Are you forgetting that Zvi Gluck, who had no gain from this matter, and did not know anyone involved, put himself on the line for the purpose on bringing the kid back, is also being attacked in this as well.
ReplyDeleteThere is NO EXCUSE under the sun for what the Hersh's under the guidance of Shecher did to Isaac. There is no testimony that THEY can give to justify the horrendous torture perpetrated on this child. This law suit will never appear in a court of law because the children will be brought in to testify and the defendants themselves will testify as to what the Hersh's themselves did to the children.
ReplyDeleteThere is no Judge or Jury in this country who will hear that testimony and will side with the Hersh's. Furthermore, should any one of the defendants subpoena Shechter for his hand in all of this or any one of the Rabbonim who begged him to change his mind and bring Isaac back, the Judge and Jury will see some form of senility in his decision and that in itself will nullify any form of common sense or decent parenting on the part of the Hersh's.
There are agencies, frum agengcies that parents can turn to if they cannot parent, control or deal with their children. They could have turned to OHEL or Mishkan for help but chose not to. Their RAV should have advised them to turn to OHEL or Mishkan to intervene and help them with their issues with these chidlren. There would have been an entirely different outcome had they used common sense.
In addition as an employee of Hatzolah, had he only used the resources of the Hatzola members, and discussed the issues with them, any one of them would have advised them to go to OHEL or Mishkan and get their assistance. They didn't need to resort to torture.
They are treading on very thin water here and they don't know what they are getting themselves into. If they have any minor children at home, they should know that when EVERYTHING comes out in court, they should be prepared for a visit from Child Protective Services because they risk having their other children removed from their home and it won't be because of their relatives it will be because of their own foolish and vengeful actions.
They are treading on very thin water here and they don't know what they are getting themselves into. If they have any minor children at home, they should know that when EVERYTHING comes out in court, they should be prepared for a visit from Child Protective Services because they risk having their other children removed from their home and it won't be because of their relatives it will be because of their own foolish and vengeful actions. "
ReplyDeleteWell. they had so far SIX cases and they came out clean as snow. no shred of abuse was found..
ahem ..... swallow your hat now. Motzi Shem Ra ....not talking about Chilul Hashem .....